Hydroids and seahorses

[gman0526]

I have noticed that folk that keep SH just flip at the mere mention of the word hydroid. While I do understand that hydroids sting and harm SH, I don't understand why if we're setting a tank that is basically like any other SW tank we have to be so paranoid as I have noticed SH keepers. I have read about people just plain out telling folk not to get LR because of hydroids.

Are hydroids more of a menace in a SH tank or is it just another carried on myth?

[Doctor_Reef]

From what I understand and have been told by those who have helped me with horses is that when feeding there young sea horses wild plankton that often there is an introduction of various parasites that can compete for food and also kill small horses....Although in my experience I have not had a problem with parasites associated with the use of wild plankton, I have had these other pests that were introduced to my tanks along with the desirable plankton. The worst of these were of course the dreaded hydroids. These hydroids were probably introduced as larvae or medusae. The problem is that their stinging tentacles can injure and even kill small seahorses, but a more serious problem seems to be that they probably do more damage by competing for food. By the time a hydroid colony reaches a few inches in diameter, it can become a serious drain on the plankton supply. So Hydroids are a big proplem...there are some answers in managing this problem...and products that have been used with some success...

[tdevil]

nice post Ron ;)

http://www.seahorse.org/library/articles/seahorseCulture.shtml

Jay

[Doctor_Reef]

Hmmmmm.... I had http://www.seahorse.org in my post yesterday??? I even edited my post at 6:47 because I put http://www.seehorse.org instead of seahorse.org... I had said that this was one of the for most places on the net to get sea horse information...that whole sentence is gone with the link???? How did that happen??? :(

[Gottcha]

sure ya did........

[Doctor_Reef]

HEheh.,,,, I may be stupid but I am not dumb.... Don't get it!!! ;)

[Zack]

Sure ya did... HAHA That site has a ton of info on seahorses. Great link!! I saw Gottcha added it to the links section too :)

[gman0526]

Ok TY guys. ;)

[coral_diver]

Well I hate to say this I am a member of seahorse.org and I dont want to slander that site but part of the reason I asked to have this section added to CF is they are getting mean and unhelpful over there? They were not real nice to a friend of mine very recently. Not sure what has changed in the last few years but it is just not the same place. I would rather be able to stay here on the forum and not stray from "home". I hope that we can also attract seahorse keepers as well as our reef, fo, and fowlr keepers and make this a great place for all information for whatever needs. I hope you will all stay here for this type of info as well. I am working hard to compile everything I can think of and all the research I have done in the many years past and present and even some suggested reading materials although much of my information will come from these books as well for you all to use. I hope you all will try seahorses they are a wonderful creature to have but keep in mind please they are not a reef compatable animal and are not compatable with many fish as they are slow eaters, swimmers, etc. I look forward to hearing all the questions and sucesses!

[Doctor_Reef]

Sorry to hear about that coral diver...but I hope that this forum can meet the needs of the horse lovers!!! Thanks for all your help.... :)

[Zack]

Sorry to hear about that coral diver...but I hope that this forum can meet the needs of the horse lovers!!! Thanks for all your help.... :)

Amen thank-you for all your help!!

[tdevil]

keep in mind please they are not a reef compatable animal and are not compatable with many fish as they are slow eaters, swimmers, etc. I look forward to hearing all the questions and sucesses!

actually that statement is more of a general rule, not all SH have to be seperate from a reef setting. there are many reefers w/ ponies in their lagoonal style reefs w/ these so called non-compatable fish. having said that i do lean more towards that rule because you never know the personality of either the SH or the fish. some SH's like chasing their food and some dont, i guess it depends on the health and how actice the SH is.

i would recomend, if you are planning on buying a SH, do your research and make sure you are buying from reputable place ;)

Jay

[coral_diver]

tdevil...? I dont think I have ever seen a seahorse chase food they may follow a live shrimp before they snick it but by no means would I ever state that they are fast LOL. Yes people do keep them in lagoon like settings and with the non compatable fish. I keep my dwarfs with 2 naked ocellaris but I get a heck of a scold from other keepers telling me they will get eaten. As far as stating that they should not be in a reef like setting I should maybe clarify that as to saying that seahorses are not comapatable with most corals because they sting and this causes stress or injuries to the horses and sometimes death. So seperate from a reef setting I am sticking to since I think most of us generalize a reef as a tank with corals and lots of corals if not most have some type of sting minus maybe a few leathers and softies, even some of our zoa's have sting potential. There is a big difference between lagoon and reef to me...Of course everyone should do research and buy from a reputable place but if you know nothing how would you know the difference....reason for this seahorse section but thank for your comments...

[tdevil]

not fast by any means, not really what i ment, lol. i have seen SH 's chase their food through the flow. im not talking about high flow.

i was just pointing out that that general rule is just that, a general rule. there are exceptions to most rules. would i recomend having SH's in a tank w/ clowns, damsels, zoa's, etc. prob not, it can be done though.

i dont have the experience that you have, i have yet to make up my mind as to get some SH's or not, i have been reading about them for a few years though. i got a mantis shrimp instead of ponies a few years ago, lmao.

Jay

[Doctor_Reef]

Yeah, those mantis are pretty slow too!!! :lol:

[specsgirl]

I too had a pair in my 75 gal full blown reef with enough flow for sps. My ponies had no problem chasing the food and were happy. My male even loved playing in the current. I'm a firm believer that there are many ways to do something successfully.

[Condiman]

me I try to make things as natural as possible for them

[coral_diver]

I agree I like it natural as well but there are just many issues that can arise from keeping it that way, especially with dwarfs because of the feeding.

Yikes Specs you had corals that sting in with the ponies? That is one thing I am not brave enought to do again I did it once and the pair did not last long. That was when I was newer at keeping them and really didn't listen to what people were telling me at all.

Things can be done many ways I am just not sure that anyone new should try something that is not recommended and should at least to start try to follow the starter guidelines....JMO :)

[tdevil]

no worries, Desiree

i agree w/ most of the guidelines ;)

has everyone seen the video on reefvideos.com of Marte Meneses ponie tank, very cool vid

Jay

[gman0526]

I've seen that video It's a very cool tank (the rics in there don't hurt my opinion at all ;) ) As a amtter of fact Marc (melev) is building a similar tank too, with the slanted front glass.

[tdevil]

I've seen that video It's a very cool tank (the rics in there don't hurt my opinion at all ;) ) As a amtter of fact Marc (melev) is building a similar tank too, with the slanted front glass.

yep, i hope he gets it running soon

Jay

[coral_diver]

No I dont think I have seen it do you have a link? It's here on this forum? I would be interested in seeing it!

[tdevil]

yep, it is the 10th video or the video in the second colum 3rd down ;)

http://www.reefvideos.com/reefshowcase_04_content.html

Jay

[coral_diver]

Very interesting Tdevil thanks for sharing...I see some aptasia that he needs to take care of in that ricordia tank LOL and yikes the temp he is keeping in both the horse and reef tank wow I am supprized!

[gman0526]

Why are you surprised at the temp.? Here in Puerto Rico SH can be found in waters ranging between 80-86 degrees, just curious. :D

[tdevil]

Very interesting Tdevil thanks for sharing...I see some aptasia that he needs to take care of in that ricordia tank LOL and yikes the temp he is keeping in both the horse and reef tank wow I am supprized!

lol, i am surprised also.

in the wild temps do climb into the mid 80's, in our glass boxes it is a bit harder to control the higher temps if something were to fail, fans, chillers and heaters dont last for ever and if a cooling fan failed then there wouldnt be that few degrees of play before it was found, we wont talk about the heaters and chiller, lmao

Jay

[Brock Fluharty]

Sorry to dig up an old postm but hydroids are really only a threat to dwarf seahorses.

Desiree,

What was your friends name on SH.org? I would be willing to bet that s/he was either not following advice, or had the seahorses in a harmful setup, or was planning to. Desiree, I am going to say this, and it will probably sound mean, but it's not meant to be. A lot of the info you post here about seahorses is...at best half correct. We've argued about this before, but I just hate to see people trying to set up a seahorse tank get wrong information, and end up harming a seahorse in the process. You really can't compare dwarf seahorses to seahorses in general. They are COMPLETELY different, their care is completely different, and their actions are completely different. A lot of the larger seahorses can and will gladly chase down their food. Dwarf seahorses are notorious "lazy bums" of the seahorse world ;)

(Not to promote other forums) But on seahorse.org, there is a discussion going on about changing the way we keep dwarfs...very interesting for any dwarf owner. Check it out! It's titled the self sustaining dwarf tank thread, or something along those lines.

Now back to hydroids, yes, some of us "Seahorse Nazi's" will recommend nothing live in the tank, and that you seed it with pods. It is, however, a very simple procedure to remove the threat of hydroids in a tank. It's called panacur. It's dog dewormer, which you add to the tank. It's a lot like copper though. The effects last for years to come, but it kills all hydroids, and creates a "blanket" on all surfaces killing any hydroids that land on the glass, rocks, etc. In dwarf tanks, we also avoid amphipods, because they have been known to attack and eat dwarfs and their fry.

Sorry about my rant, and I know this thread is old, but I saw a few things that were unanswered...

Thanks,
Brock

[coral_diver]

No problem Brock I haven't been half right? What are you talking about? Let me start with I have no problem in you disagreeing with me but I have already listed Pancur as a treatment for hydroids somewhere here I just don't have the time to find it at the moment. I am about to be getting on my way out. I have the background as I stated somewhere to you today so see that as reference. I do not feel it is fair to list my friends name from SH.org....there is really no reason...second she set up the tank with my assistance there was no dangerous situation or bad set up...really that is all I am going to say about that for now perhaps later I will elaborate more on my oppinion on this but for now I have to get out of here. thanks for you oppinion however it is misplaced...

[Brock Fluharty]

It's not misplaced. I understand that you have a lot of experience keeping and breeding seahorses, but a lot of things have changed, and it seems that you haven't been keeping your information current. A lot of the recommendations you've posted here are outdated, and many things are incorrect. Again, I just don't want someone to come here and see the information you've posted and set up a tank wrong.

I understand you not wanting to post your friends name. Maybe your friend was yelled at because you helped her set the tank up wrong, and you filled her head with outdated information. I'm sorry to put it so bluntly, but go look around seahorse.org. You'll find that I was right on the recommendations, and saying that your info id outdated, and wrong.

[coral_diver]

I personally still disagree I keep up very well, it's not worth us arguing about though we each have different oppinions on SH keeping...that's fine. My friend was not yelled at because of her set up...really it's a long story....she and I are set up perfectly or we would not be sucessful it's that simple. I do not frequent SH.org anymore because there are to many new people there giving bad info and the good mod's seem to be hard to get ahold of anymore and people are getting rude over there which isn't the way it used to be. Love Ducky, love is it....something B gosh I forget her name I can picture her seahorse anyway she is cool...Starry B is another good friend of mine...and I think Danny is awesome too. Blunt is fine I am quite blunt myself and just want to simply say I don't try to push info on people ie filling people's heads...I tell people they need to do more research that what anyone tells them it's that simple...I hope you do not rely on one source of information...there is alot of contradiction out there and a lot of good info and alot of bad info to be had, everyone needs to use common sense. I am a little put off by the fact that you would make a comment that you are right and someone is wrong due to one site...there are things that are blaently wrong and there are differences of husbandry, knowledge, experience, and research which the later is what we have...I do think however somewhere you perhaps misunderstood some info you thought you learned which is fine...if you feel differently that is fine I am pro research and learning... I decided to send a friend of mine here in FL a email to see if he can give me some quick info...he happens to be part of a goverment group that spends all their time with syngathids...they are part of a research group for the preservation of these species...he is a little more of an authority than those over at syngathid or SH.org...Hopefully he is in the area and not away. I'll let you know ASAP.....night

[Brock Fluharty]

There are several people at sh.org that breed seahorses commercially, and they are the ones I take my knowledge from.

[coral_diver]

I won't even go there..."commercially"....it's ok if there is proven safe science to back up their methods however commercial environments are alot of the time run way different then how they should be...these are reasons we get sick, stressed, etc animals from commercial sources. I'm going to leave it at that. That's how I feel and at this point let's agree to disagree however I do not appreciate being told that I am wrong when these are both published methods as well as my friend works for a division that studies the SH's specifically and that is where I get my information.

[Brock Fluharty]

Ok, I understand, but to be fair, you have told me several times in several threads that my information is wrong.

:)

[specsgirl]

I agree guys...time to take a break and just agree to disagree.

[seaponiee]

Hi,
I am new to this site, but I was thrilled that there was a seahorse section. I have had/ have both dwarf and H. erectus seahorses. Getting back on the topic of this thread the hydroid fear is mainly for the dwarf horses or babies of the bigger horses.

[coral_diver]

Seaponiee, I have found the threat of hydroids being an issue only to dwarfs or babies of the larger horses to be false. What people are not understanding is that there are several forms of hydroids and although Pancur is an accepted treatment you have to know what to look for with the other types of hydroids. Some hydroids actually look like short hair algea, another type is only visable under magnification of at least 10X and it looks like hair strands with a nuclei and then there are they type that most of us are used to seeing or the more common which is the little medusa jellyfish that go to a free swimming stage. There are still many others but these are the types I have personally seen in my tanks. I have had both Redi and Erectus affected by hydroids. Either way think of it this way I guess it's a little of a stretch but here goes hydroids=no see ums or mosquitos they feed off of seahorses like the no see ums or mosquitos feed off of us, although because we are bigger the no see ums and mosquitos do not aggrivate us to illness because #1 we can escape them and go inside, seahorses no matter the size do not have this option they are stuck with them and although the hydroids may not cause the actual death of the horse they do cause afflictions that lead to the death of larger horses, infections etc...just something to keep in mind. I know soooo many think hydroids are harmless to larger horses however it just is not so. Ohh and welcome to the forum!

[Brock Fluharty]

Hydroids do not "feed off of seahorses". They eat small food, such as pods. That's why hydroids thrive in dwarf tanks, because we are dumping in bbs nearly constantly. They accidentally sting the seahorses.

I agree seaponiee, they only pose a really serious threat to fry and dwarfs, but I believe that if there were enough of them, or if they were big enough, they could certainly hurt, MAYBE kill a larger horse.

[coral_diver]

There are many types of hydroids not just the medusa jellyfish free swimming type and yes some do feed off of seahorses, others like the jelly like ones do sting and as I said cause other afflictions like I said my example was a bit of a stretch but it is an example but like I said there are types that DO feed off of seahorses like a parasite generally it is the type that is brought in on gorgonians that appears like hair algea...I have pics somewhere like I said I'll try to find them and get em posted. The point was to get you to realize that some that come into our tanks wether the type you are familiar with or not, that they can cause issues it has happened to me I am not trying to scare people I don't understand why you insist on arguing with me? As far as eating pods...hydroids come in on brine shrimp eggs if not decapped...they are not actually droid food...I'm going to see if I can find a good site for you in a day or two here so you can read up on the different types of droids and understand what I know K and I'll look for those pics...trust me I was shocked when I learned of droids that affect larger horses and I never would have known if it were not for alot of research and a high power magnifying glass...

[Brock Fluharty]

Wait, did you mean hydroids do not eat bbs or pods?

[coral_diver]

http://www.afsc.noaa.gov/groundfish/HAPC/Hydroids_synopsis.htm/
http://www.reefs.org/library/aquarium_net/1097/1097_2.html
http://www.seaslugforum.net/factsheet.cfm?base=hydroids
http://www.seaslugforum.net/display.cfm?id=2329
http://www.seawater.no/fauna/Nesledyr/hydroider.htm lots of types of hydroids you call look at pick them from the menu at the left.
http://www.fishingnj.org/arthydro.htm here is a good article to consider!


You will see here that there are over 200 species of hydroids and that there are many classes of them and all of them are carnivorous. This is just a quick list of some sites you can get some decent info but there is a ton more out there.
No, Brock what I was trying to say, I see I worded it a little funny, is that they much more than just pods and brine but that they do not generally pop up in a hydroid free tank unless there is a nutrient issue or they were brought in on something active already. There must be some column of food available or something for them to preditize so yes again they pop up in tanks fed NHBBS because they were not properly decapped and rode in on the cap of the brine, then because many people do improper water changes and do not siphon the extras out there becomes a bacteria and nutrient haven where hydroids love to hatch themselves into. I was just trying to clarify that they do not pop up because brine and pods are present there they have to be introduced into the aquarium somehow then even so you have to have something they want to feed on for them to hatch out depending on their variety they eat many things even larger SH's but then let me clarify that they wont eat a whole large seahorse...they will however preditize the larger seahorses like a parasite especially if there is insufficient food for them and they will cause the larger horse many medical issues if you will and in turn cause the death so it may technically be a secondary cause of death the hydroids did cause it because if they were not present the affliction would not have began in the first place and if you read the articles you will see they are causing problems with fish larvae even and those fish larvae are not small. Definatly bigger than a DSH. Start here with this info if you need more I'll see what I can dig up...it's just a quick search for some good info with some good example pics for you. You can feel free to disagree but there is alot of proof here IMO and on top of it, I had to laugh in one article it specifically stated something like it is becoming obvious that much research needs to be done on them because of all the issues they cause that more or less have not specifically been studied. So the real impact of them may not have been totally investigated but they are seeing that there is a need now...ok gotta go things to do I'll check back later.....

[Brock Fluharty]

Ahhh...I get what you're saying now.

:)

[coral_diver]

YEAH! :) Glad that one is sorted out :) :) :)

[sixfins]

So, coral-diver did I read correctly that there my be other ways to rid hydroids other than nuking the tank with panacur such as keyhole limpets? I'm not particularly fond of the idea of nuking in the event of an infestation.

[weez1959]

I'm currently setting up a pony tank and I often see mentioned hydroids. I've had a reef tank for about a year and a half and have yet to see one (I think :confused: ). What do these look like? Anyone have a pic? Also why are they dangerous to ponies?
Sorry about these silly questions but I'd rather know now and tackle the problem before they arrive than wait and have something terrible happen to them.
Louise :)

[cat 1]

If im not mistaken they look similiar to little feather dusters but they'll be in little colonies all mine have brownish tubes w/brown/cream colored "feathers" the tubes are pretty sharp too.

[weez1959]

a pic anyone?

[emeryt]

Hi! I have had a couple of H. Erectus for a little over a year. Some hydroids have popped up on my live rock. They look like spikey flowers? kinda flowy. Anyway my male has some white spots on his tail that I at first thought was the begining of flesh erosion. But they did not get worse. Looks like a loss of pigment.
Just yesterday when I had the filter off, the hydroids were really extended, I saw him swim close by one of them and it caught his tail. I then watched him shake it off. Could this be causing the white spots?
Also do I need to get rid off the live rock? It has a great gorgonian on it so I would hate to loose it if there is some way to get rid of the hydroid with out harming it. But I can't risk my horses.
Thanks

[coral_diver]

Ok yes there are other ways of getting rid of dreded droids as I like to call them other than pancur. I'll post ways that have worked for me in the past in a little while. I appologize that I have not been around lately. There are links that I posted in this post to some pictures of different types of hydroids there are many types. The most common ones we tend to see are the ones that look like jellyfish attached to the glass and they are very small like about the size of an eraser or smaller and they become free swimming at times and look exactly like baby jellyfish at that time, the other common one is the one that looks like hair algea or plant material and can at times grow up the sides of the glass you can only tell the difference by looking at them with a hand held magnifying glass and you'll see sticky ends. I had that type once and thought they were just hair algea and couldn't figure out why I couldn't get rid of it. Now I know.
Emeryt...yes droids from my experience can bother and cause ailments with larger horses, specifically erectus. I may have a picture somewhere of my old erectus that had "skin" if you will and eye issues due to droids. See droids still stress larger horses no matter how you look at it they are stinging creatures. So the stinging may be causing the skin issue but the stress the stinging will cause may cause other things so it's time to fix the issue quick. Chances are that your gorgonian was what brought them in sadly. I would suggest that if you want to keep the gorgonian that you move it to a non seahorse tank like a reef because you can not treat the tank in any manor other than what I call the constant toothbrush and suction manor for the rock. It's litterally exactly what I said scrub those suckers off the rock and suction all you can out or if the rock can be removed take it out and scrub it in some fresh salt ro water and discard the water. Give a good swish in plain ro and replace back in tank. It wont probably remove all of them and definatly not perminantly but it will keep them under controll where they shouldn't cause a issue with erectus but you'll have to repeat this when you see them start to pop up again. I have boiled the suckers in kalkawasser water before and had luck that they didn't come back but that dosen't fix the gorgonian it will always be infested. Nothing you can do there unfortunatly. You can cut the gorgonian loose and treat the rock and reattach the gorgonian with gel super glue and hope that they just die off but its not likely.

[coral_diver]

Emeryt let me know what you'd like to do and I can try to help you with my best elimination method. Keyhole limpets are great also but can take time if you are only able to afford a few...how large is the tank and how many horses? any other inhabitants? snails fish corals? ohh and what type of substrate?

[emeryt]

Thanks for your quick response Desiree. I have been looking online and now I am not even sure if they are hydoids. The guy at the LFS said they were but none of the picts online look remotely similar. They look more like an anemone on a stalk. There are a total of three spread out over the surface of the rock and 2 are white and 1 is a rose color.
I wouldn't mind trying to remove them. But I don't think the toothbrush will work. They close up or retract when anything gets too close.
Any thoughts are appreciated.
Thanks
Tara

[emeryt]

Sorry forgot to post what I have. Did it in the intial set up and thought it would show in my profile.
30gal
2 seahorses
1 Baggai Cardinal
1 twin spotted goby
1 serpant star
1 snail
1 limpet
1 hermit crab
green star polyp (not doing to well)
sand bottom

[coral_diver]

Emeryt...well there are some hydroids that look like aptasia (sp?) Can you get a picture? Do you feed brine? if so do you decap it or purchase it decaped? I am pretty willing to bet that you do have hydroids. In one of my old dwarf seahorse tanks I would battle the type it sounds like you are describing constantly but I pretty much refuse to use pancur not that I am saying you should refuse I just don't like the idea of dog dewormer in my tank and I figure I have to remove the seahorses anyway because I don't chance any overdosing on my part only to lose the seahorses just my precautions but people sucessfully treat all the time but pancur also kills worms, snails, gorgonians, corals, etc you get the idea. As far as the toothbrush you need a good firm one and I know they retract but if you litterally scrub the rock you'll get 'em like I said they may or may not come back but if you can do this out of the tank in some specially mixed saltwater I would suggest doing that to prevent spread of those suckers. They multiply like mad. Let me know if you are going to try that or if you want to try something else and I'll make further suggestions if you'd like :) we'll nab those bad boys don't worry :)

[emeryt]

I have tried the scrubbing and am just waiting to see what happens. I was able to remove it from the tank. If they come back on the rock I think I will just get rid of the rock. Like you said somethings just aren't worth risking your horses for.
I have a second question. My somewhat new male seems to be skinny no matter how much I fed him. Could this be internal parasites?
Thanks for all your help.
Tara

[coral_diver]

Emeryt...They most likely will come back some the scrub method is something you'll have to repeat, if they come back as the same type looking similar to aptasia then you can actually take superglue and put it on the end of a toothpick and cover them over give it a good few weeks and you can peel the glue off and they'll be history, but you have that gorgonian so I can tell you they are going to come back as long as that is in your tank. Gorgonians are huge carriers of droids unfortunatly. I love them but there is just no way to gurantee that the gorg dosen't have em. At this point you have to understand it's not just your LR but it is your substrate and anything else in the tank that is basically infested if you will. You can either go on an irradicate method and treat but you IMO should move the horses out, I don't care who says leaving your seahorses in dog dewormer is safe I totally disagree, it is stressful and leaves them suseptable to things. If you go on a tear down and start over method you have to scrub the tank down and do the bleach/water wipe and wait to re-cycle. I'd suggest just keeping up with the droids rather than a tear down or treatment. It's much easier and keeps you on your toes to watch the tank and not just forget about it. So on the skinny horse issue...Have you seen him eat well or are you just thinking that he is eating with the other fish and horse? I kind of doubt he has a parasite he'd most likely still look plump to a point...can you get a picture of him? Are you sure he dosen't just have his pouch deflated and you may have been looking at him with it inflated? Ohh and btw I'd really consider getting that serpent star out of the tank, I really dislike those guys with anything...they'll eat fish and horses depending on their size, also that may be the issue with your horse as well he might be getting munched on at night while he's trying to sleep and rest? Usually a store will take em off your hands and sometimes they'll give you a couple of bucks in trade or credit. ok let me know on the prior stuff and I'll try to check back tomorrow. It'll be ok we'll get you threw these things, I know sometimes it's frustrating but they are well worth the trouble trust me :)

[emeryt]

I already spoke to the LFS and they will give me credit on the rock with the gorgonian on it. Since you say they are prone to that I just figure I might as well get it out. His tail is looking a lot better.
As far as the skinny thing - I do watch him eat. I pretty much feed each horse individually and they snick the food from the net. I leave a few in the tank for them to hunt. His stomach (rib cage) is concave. It was when I bought him but since I saw him eat at the LFS I just figured he was having a hard time getting his share and I would fatten him up. His pouch has stayed normal but compared to the other seahorses I have had and the female I have now he is definetely concave. I will try to get a pict tonight - they never seem to turn out good though.
Thanks
Tara

[coral_diver]

Were you able to get a pic?