bioballs ??

[jimbozed]

why does live rock, get rid of nitrates, but bioballs dont??
should i get rid of my bioballs and replace them with ????
probly a stupid question, but a simple one

[Reefnut Shop]

Good liverock is very porous, and in the deepest crevices are low oxygen areas (similar to the bottom of a sandbed) where denitrifying bacteria can exist. Bioballs are only capable of building nitrifying (ammonia => nitrites, nitrites => nitrates) because they don't have these pockets.

However, this benefit is typically for liverock in the display tank. If used in the sump, detritus would also collect in the areas around the stacked rock and potentially be a problem similar to bioballs unless the rock is suspended over a void that would have adequate flow to flush the detritus through the rest of the system. You may want to just consider running your sump empty if you have adequate liverock in your tank.

This is assuming you are attempting to keep nitrate levels to a minimum in a reef tank.

[gman0526]

Nothing to add. Agreed!!!

[jimbozed]

thanks for that,
i will look at changing my setup a little i think, first to go will be the bioballs :)

[FishinInTheDark]

You'll want to slowly remove your bioballs. No more than 1/3 of them per week. That will give the biological filter in the rock time to catch up, avoiding a cycle.

GL,

[Reefnut Shop]

Great point....as much as they trap detritus, they are also super efficient with their nitrifying capabilities and can't be removed in one shot. I suppose I'm curious now too how much live rock you have in the display tank to handle the bioload?

[tim_coville_]

if you want to suspend it so it doesnt collect detris just buy some pvc tubing and some egg crate and put it up on stitls and get a couple of hermits and snails on the rock...

[prmcneal]

not to butt in, but I am having the same problem, and think of putting live rock rubble in my sump as soon as I get the balls out. What do you think

[TranZ]

As mention above....putting LR in the sump can trap detritus which produce nitrates just like the bio balls. If you have enough LR in the display tank (1-1.5 Lbs/gal) no need to put LR rubbles in the sump.

[Doctor_Reef]

I have LR in first stage of my refuge and my trates are "Zip" and trites are "Zip", and everything that needs to be "Zip" is "Zip!!" :) If you have enough flow throw the beginning chamber of the sump you should be ok with LR rubble... I am not saying that you might not trap some detritus but you shouldn't see an effect from it...
Here is how my set up looks with the LR rubble in the first stage of my fuge...It sure makes things a lot quieter!!!!

By the way with all the critters on the LR...most of the Detritus is a great food source for them.... lots of pods etc!!!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v406/RLeversee/300Gal/FTS080405d.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v406/RLeversee/300Gal/SK041905.jpg

[prmcneal]

that is a beauitful tank, what size is it? Can you post a picture of just the tank? And I am still going to try LR in my sump not a set up like your a lot smaller. Thanks for the look see.

[Reefnut Shop]

Very nice setup Doc! I'm as impressed with the goodies below as in the tank above it!

I agree, that with a softie tank, any trapped detritus would not likely be detrimental. However, on a SPS tank where every bit of nitrate causing mechanics needs to be eliminated I would not be as quick to add the liverock.

[Doctor_Reef]

You are right Reefnut on the SPS tanks...but there are ways to handle increased levels of phosphates and nitrates cause by any trapped detritus, besides the critters that are already cleaning it up...some what pricy though!! ;)
Of course for those of us that do a mixture of some hardier sps, in combination with lps and softies...the sump/fuge with the LR rubble works fine....

The fuge is a 75 gal...and I have both a phosban reactor and a kent reactor running two different mediums to help hold down any potential nutrient overloads....also the large volume of macro does a great job!!!!

Here is a couple shots of my 300gal tank....
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v406/RLeversee/300Gal/EV070405.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v406/RLeversee/300Gal/300210605c.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v406/RLeversee/300Gal/300clowns.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v406/RLeversee/300Gal/GrCap2.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v406/RLeversee/300Gal/SSV050605.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v406/RLeversee/300Gal/BC050405.jpg

Some of the fish that call this home...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v406/RLeversee/Fish%20Only/ST072305.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v406/RLeversee/Fish%20Only/SW072205.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v406/RLeversee/Fish%20Only/fw072205a.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v406/RLeversee/300Gal/JHANGIN070405a.jpg

Oh-well, I will quit now!!!

[MikeS]

Nice photos Ron, tank is looking tip-top as usual my friend... :-D

Ok...here's the deal with bioballs vs. LR as I see it...

Bioballs are nothing more than a surface to grow bacteria, just like LR, your substrate, ect. The bioballs themselves are not the problem, they are no more likely to trap detritus than any other irregular surface. The problem lies in the environment we place them in. Bioballs are typically used in a wet/dry system. or in the primary chamber of a sump. In this area, they are exposed to a high volume of oxygenated water. Because of this, you have an ideal environment for bacterial growth. The large number of bacteria in this area has a tendancy to convert availible nutrients into nitrate before they have a chance to be removed by other means, like skimming, carbon, water changes, ect. There is also a secondary issue, where the high level of bacteria in the sump or wet dry area can have an impact on the bacteria populations on the surface of the LR in the main tank. This can lead to proximity issues where the LR's ability to reduce nitrate is hindered. The degree to which this happens is debateable, and dependent on many factors. I myself believe it is secondary, but nonetheless a factor as well.

All this generally leads to evelated nitrate levels in the tank. This isn't always the case, it varies from tank to tank. Let's take Ron's tank as an example...he has LR in his primary sump chamber. That LR is no different than using bioballs, you are getting the same effect. Why doesn't he have nitrate problems? Well, he has a fairly low bioload vs. gallons ratio...he skims, he has macros to export nutrients, ect....bottom line, his exports are keeping up with it....

MikeS

[Doctor_Reef]

Nicely put Mike!
Every thing in this hobby is relative....checks and balances...etc...