Help not sure what is going on But ..........

[oil99ers]

OK We were on Holidays for a week and had someone feeding our fish. when we were away apparently the power went off for about 6 hours during the night and when it came back on not all of the pumps came back on. when we got back the tank was a mess. we did an immdiate water change and cleaned up a bunch of algae that had accumulated. we did a water change 25% and cleaned up the tank (we also lost 2 damsels and have no idea how long they were dead for).

It is now day one after all of this and now the snails are dying and the corals are doing worse.

The water looks cloudy and I tested the water and the nitrates are now between 5-10 ppm and the nitrites are at 0.25 ppm and so is the ammonia. But the PH is at 7.4. I have no idea what they were before but I know it could not have been good, not with the filters and pumps not working for at least 2 days.



I moved some of the corals to the quarantine tank as well. The Torch Coral and the Frog Spawn, they look terrible and I have no idea if they will make it or not.

When we did the water change we were told by the LFS to add extra "PRIME" to the water because of the recent floods in the area. That we did.

I have no idea if it is the PH that is hurting the corals or what it might be. If anyone has any suggestions please help. We have a ton of zenia and colt corals in the tank that we have no idea how to get off the rocks to put in the quarantine tank.. We also have some really nice mushrooms that We are not sure if we should put in the other tank as well, they are also not opening up at all and have detached themselves from the rocks.


Everything was so good before we left and now it is a mess...............



HELP PLEASE any suggestions would be appreciated.

[Doctor_Reef]

First of all I am very sorry that this has happened...
This will be a process...Your tank is going through a cycle because of all the dieing coral, fish, and bacteria do to the tank being down and the filters…
You will need to continue with water changes, also you need to get the ph up a bit...I really don't like seeing it below 8.0 but a 7.6 for a short time is ok...7.4 is low...You can use a ph buffer and make sure your alk is at or between 7-12 you may need to buff that also because with all the death it is also probably low...The key is not to panic and realize that you can’t undo what has happened but you can re-cycle this system and get it back to what you have had.
You are doing the right things by moving some of the stuff into your qt and so on…If you think you are loosing the xenia, cut some frags and put them in the qt that way you will be able to have them when your tank gets back to normal…run your filters full blast kick up your skimmer, and keep the water flow high…reduce the amount you are feeding and take out any dead fish or dead coral….

Again I am real sorry that this has happened…. :(

[oil99ers]

Should we be putting the Clowns and the Gobe in the other tank as well, or will they be ok for a day or two?

[Doctor_Reef]

It just depends on how high the ammonia and nitrite gets...If you see that climbing you will need to get them in a safe tank....

[Sugar Magnolia]

I agree with Ron, this is going to take some time for the tank to recover from such a disaster. It's going to take a while for the biological filtration in the tank to re-establish itself, which will proabbly take a few weeks. IMO, any sick looking corals/inverts/fish should be removed to QT before they die int he tank, compounding the situation.Placed in QT, they stans a much better chance of recovering. Keep anm eye on the frogspawn and torch for signs of brown jelly infection.

[oil99ers]

well I had to move the fish to the QT tank. they were not looking so good this morning. I checked the levels again and they were all the same except the PH which is still very low. I will go and buy some buffer today. The Phosphate level today was also a little high at 0.25ppmalthough nothing is very high at all, would the best guess be the PH level?

There are lots and lots of bristle worms out, I had no idea we had THAT many of them......The spagetti worms and the tube worms are all dying as well, I have no idea what happened except that we are loosing our tank.

:cry:

this has never happened to us in the year and a half we have had the tank set up...........so this is new for us. Do we just start the whole tank over again?

The fish seem to be doing much better in the QT tank they are at least not gasping to breath and they look much more colorful.

Can you put distilled water in the tank? I am thinking maybe it is the water here because of the floods and that we should be buying water to put in the tank for the time being? The LFS has always said that the water here is fine but in the past couple of weeks has been bad due to all of the floods. Possibly Metals in the water ? I am so upset.........

I am going to go the the LFS right away and take them my water to be tested and see what they say, and maybe get some PH up?

I could cry......

Thanks for the replies though

[FishinInTheDark]

I sure understand your emotions. I would cry too.

Distilled water will get you through. Bad tapwater will only make things worse.

I really wish you the best.

[Doctor_Reef]

Man again so sorry for this problem...If you can get ro/di water and mix your salt and continue to do water changes and get the chemistry right again your tank will recover...Again this is going to take some time...but it happens to the best...Remember to remove anything that is dead and dieing…that way you will not keep adding to the ammonia problems…I am glad that you have an established qt that makes things better...Listen we will all have a good cry with you!!! Take a deep breath and say ok water changes...stabilize it now and start the process to recovery!!!!! Just remember if you started all over again you would have to cycle it anyway…might as well keep what you can and move forward…

[oil99ers]

OK the tank is looking much better the colt corals are starting to come to life again and the crabs are runnign around and all of the bristle worms have gone back into hiding (Wow there are hundreds of those little suckers and one very very large one) the Ph is up to 8.0 now and the nitrate and nitrites are at 0 but the ammonia has gone upto 2ppm......we did use a buffer to get the ph up and have been doing water changes every day (20%) the fish seem to be doing ok in the qt tank but the corals are still having a bit of trouble.

When I get the ammonia levels down, when is it safe to put the fish and corals back in the tank? And is it good to have all of those bristle worms in there? We also saw this little crab yesterday, he looked like a crab that you would eat in a resteraunt if he were much much bigger are they good or bad? he was very brown or tan looking in color.

and thanks for all of the good advice so far!


I am happy we did not loose too much.....so far

[Doctor_Reef]

Sounds a lot better!!! :) When your numbers are spot on you can start adding the fish and coral back into the display...Depends on how many you have...if you have a lot add some back every few days keeping a close eye on your water parameters...you don't want to send your system into shock again...If your corals are dieing don't put them back in the system until you get them stabilized...If you get a really large bristle worm you may want to remove it…but bristle worms are good detritus eaters and very beneficial to your system…no worries…how large of a crab is this??? Most crabs are opportunistic eaters and are not reef safe…so keep an eye on him…right now he is probably cleaning up the dead stuff…and so that is a good thing…but if he starts going after your other tank inhabitants you will need to remove him…I would probably remove it anyway myself…

[oil99ers]

Man is this ever frustrating.....

the tank is getting really coudy again and the ph has dropped once again to 7.4 and the Ammonia is still around 1.5

I feel like I am fighting a loosing battle.

I added more Buffer and have been doing water changes every day of about 20%. Should I be changing more or less water maybe?

The LFS said not to use distilled or RO Water because that would bring the ph down even lower. The water in the city here has a normal ph of 8.2 and it is very clean. I always treat it with Prime and we have a separate tank that has our water for water changes so it has cycled many times through a filter and tested before I ever add it to my tank.


Am I just being impatient? I feel like I should have seen some results. The Colts that are in the tank right now for the last two days have looked great and then today again they just don't want to stand up at all and the bristle worms are out in full force and the crabs that are left in the tank are very slow, untill I try to catch them to put them in the QT tank then they hide in the rocks.......

We removed all of the dead snails and the clam (that one hurt). there was a fish that died that I have tried and tried to find with no luck so I am just imagining that he is somewhere in the rocks. I just hope that something by now (Like the Hundreds of bristle worms) have taken care of it.

any more suggestions from anyone would be great.

Thanks

Kim

[Sugar Magnolia]

The ammonia is still up due to the fish dying and any dead/dying snails in the tank. What size tank is this? (not sure if you mentioned this yet)

Also, the LFS is not correct about the RO or distilled water. Your pH is dropping because the tank is in the middle of a cycle. pH swings around during a cycle and it's best to just leave it be until the tank has finished cycling. Think of this as starting a tank from the beginning. Your tank crashed, so die off begins. Ammonia levels rise and the denitrifying bacteria can't keep up with the increased level. It takes a few weeks for the population to increase enough to start breaking down the ammonia and nitrate. Tank crashes are our worst nightmarre as reefkeepers. You have to just think of it as a new beginning and let the cycle take it's course. Don't try to rush it. I'd suggest pulling all the rest of the animals out of the tank and just letting it sit for another week or two and see how things are then. Continue to do a couple of 20-30% water changes a week and be sure to syphon out any dying funk off the rocks. (sponges and so forth)

[Doctor_Reef]

Agree with sugar on the ro water, your lfs is wrong here…you can buff the ro water to a 8.3 ph anyway...Also I would say that even though this is going through a cycle do to the crash, it is different in that it has been established and if you are not able to get the critters out then you have to be more aggressive in maintaining as close to the numbers as possible...or you will continue to lose fish and other critters, you will want to reduce the stress on these animals as much as you can possibly do…as you lose these critters you will see that this will only delay the process with more dead and dieing stuff...It doesn't cost much to buffer the ph...you can use baking soda as it has a natural ph of 8.1 to 8.3 and buffing will not harm the tank at all... I would do more frequent water changes to remove the bad water at least every other day...when you do that you are physically removing ammonia and replacing it with good water...that will also help the inhabitants that are in the tank and help maintain a better water quality while the bacteria are replenishing themselves in the system...The best thing to do is as Sugar has said to remove all the fish...and coral and then let the tank do it's thing...I would more than agree that you should make sure to take out anything that is dead...stay on top of it and it will come back...Remember patience is a virtue...that most of us do not have…

[oil99ers]

It is a 33 gal tank, it has 35+ Pounds of Live rock, about 2+ inches of sand at the bottom, Three filters and 2 powerheads. It has an Orbitz light. it had 2 clowns, a dragon gobe, and two damsels. a bunch of soft corals and a clam. Snails, hermit crabs and now that this happened lots and lots of bristle worms (ick!). the tank has been awsome up till now. ...

The ammonia was better today at about 1 ppm, but the Ph dropped again to 7.8. I have been removing everything I can see. My Nitrates and nitrites are still at zero.

I just want it to be better By Sunday because we are away again for 5 days and I am afraid of what might happen........

[Doctor_Reef]

You are going to be gone for 5 days???? I wish I could tell you that these things cooperate with our schedules but they don't! I certainly hope that it works out for you...Do you have someone to take care of the tank while you are gone that knows how to care for it if it still needs to have some water changes, etc. ??? I am glad that the ammonia is dropping and I hope you are getting on top of it...A few more days you should know if you are on top of it!!!

[Sugar Magnolia]

If you're leaving Sunday, then just be sure that everything still alive is taken out of there. By the time you get back, you'll probably see a rise in nitrites and nitrates.

[2639]

Regarding QT...should that have the same lighting setup as the display? Is it safe to simply stick animals in a tub that has ZERO lighting? How will this affect oiler's situation?

[Doctor_Reef]

You can get by with limited lighting...my qt has a light but just a florescent light...some use just the natural lighting fin the room...That doesn't matter unless you are keeping the coral in qt also then you need good lighting...And she may have to do that!

[oil99ers]

Yes My cousin will be here looking after the fish and the tank, hse has watched me change the water a couple of times and she is going to be over a couple of more times to help me. I have showed her how to test the water as well. I am stting up pails of water for her so al she has to do is just add the water. It will already be measured out for her so it should not be that hard.

we will have the fish food also measured out in ziplock baggies for her as well. We can only hope that everything will be fine.

Maybe by Sunday though things will have settled down a little bit anyways

This morning the ph was at 7.8 and the ammonia at 1.0 so although it is not great it is better than the amonia being 8.0 which it was about 2 days ago.

[Doctor_Reef]

Yes that is a big improvement for sure...We will keep our fingers crossed for ya!!!! :)

Wow...sorry this happened to you. :(

You'll get through it though. Things just need to re-stabilize.

There are a couple of things that you can do to prevent such problems in the future. One inexpensive option would be to buy a couple of battery backup airpumps that kick on only when the power goes out. http://www.aquariumguys.com/silentairpump.html You will want to remove the airstone or be diligent about changing them every month as when they aren't pushing air, they clog up with algae and bacteria. Power outages are tough on all tanks but especially ones with DSB's. I don't know if you have one or not but I suspect that you do based on the ups and downs of your tank re-stabilizing.

THE FOLLOWING IS MERELY CONJECTURE AS I WAS OBVIOUSLY NOT THERE

The tank most likely crashed due to insufficient flow at the air/water interface (i.e. the top of the water). This will cause a drop in dissolved Oxygen and a rapid increase in CO2. One or two of your fish "drowned" due to Hypoxia. http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-06/eb/

The dead fish caused excess Ammonia. Unfortunately, during the power outage you lost a lot of your Aerobic bacteria that normally process the Ammonia into Nitrite too. So instead of a mini-cycle, you got a full blown one. The lowered pH of the tank while the pumps were off allowed the Phosphates that were adsorbed to the sand bed (if any) and the LR along with the Phosphate that had previously been bound in the bacteria, to be released into the water column.

Once the power came back on, the remaining bacteria had not only the food that they needed, they also had enough Oxygen to begin reproducing again. Unfortunately, there was a lot of Phosphate and Nitrogen in the water column, so you had a bacteria bloom which caused murky water, depressing pH again. Then the food ran out and some of the bacteria died re-releasing Phosphates. Hence the see-saw effect with Phosphate levels and pH.

I personally feel that most people should have air pumps like this or a UPS backup or a backup generator. Especially if you have a DSB as a power outage has more of an impact for those tanks. Basically what happens is when the depth/saturation of Oxygen gets too low, it causes a release of large amounts of dissolved organics (that drive heterotrophic feeding and metabolism of bacteria that reduces the O2 level and increases the presence of both CO2 and organic acids. In other words, your sandbed is TEMPORARILY fighting your attempts to get the tank to stabilize. $20 bucks for a couple of air pumps is good insurance in my opinion.

Graph showing efficiency of air pumps is from this article. http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-07/eb/index.htm

[Doctor_Reef]

Nice chart Mantisfreak - and nice explanation for what takes place when the tank sits with no water movement and surface air exchange.... :thumbsup:

[2639]

That's a VERY good chart! Don't you all just love numbers?! ;)

[Doctor_Reef]

How is the tank today??? Hope the numbers are still coming down!!!