Powder blue. What's the secret ?

[Sergio Henrique]

Hi everbody,

I would love to have one powder blue tang, but everbody never have success with this fish, What the secret to keep this fish for a long time in our fish tank ?

thanks

[jman785]

I don't think there is a secret, its merely getting a specimen that's net caught, rather than chemically caught, such as Cyanide.

Also make sure it eats at the store, before your take it home to your tank.

I think this goes, for most specimens normally...just some advice.

[Doctor_Reef]

Agree..... Acclimate it slowly as tangs in general get Ich easily... So take your time...

[icereefer]

and since there a herbivore. they do better in a tank that has likeable macro's and kelp. are a refuge that's growing them , that you can add too the main tank they host in.

First off its not the easiest of the tangs to keep rating a 3 out of 1-5 scale with 5 being the most hardy. It requires a large tank, doesnt play well with other tangs and of the tangs is one of the more vulernable to ich a problem that has a tendency to effect all tangs. Being a herbivour it will do best in a tank with lots of Maco algae such as Red Gracileria(SP?).

[Telco Guy]

Just happened to run across an article entitled The Powder Blue Tang, Acanthurus leucosternon, Not Easily Kept (http://www.marineland.com/seascope/ss_Issue1_04.pdf). This is a PDF file so you will need Adobe Acrobat Reader to view it. The article can be found at:

http://www.marineland.com/seascope/ss_Issue1_04.pdf

Among other things they mention that the smallest recommended tank size for this species is 100 gallons.

[atrocity]

I think you should QT It for a good while if you get it.

[jman785]

Telco Guy,

Good find!

[fppf]

Well I picked one up sat.
So far so good, he started picking within an hour of placing him in the tank. Very healthy fish, hope I'm one on those success stories. I have not lost a high dollor fish yet. He is a little shy but swims around nice and is getting along with everyone. I wish I would have found this thread first, I'm a little worried about him now.

http://members.aol.com/fppf/Pic/tang.jpg

[jman785]

Good luck with him

[fppf]

Well
He ate some brine and some flake this morning.
He is still very shy and hides when you walk up to the tank. I think the hiding places is a good thing to have, makes him feel more secure. I have also been leaving a clip of sea veggy's in there but I don't know if he is eating it or the lawnmower blenny is.

[fppf]

Well he got ich, took a few days but he has it.
Not bad yet, he is eating a little less but still picking.

Will keep you posted on how he holds out. I hope I don't loose him.

[chucklepup]

Get a cleaner shrimp, preferably a skunk cleaner shrimp. I've had one sine the beginning and my tang ( a yellow tang, so one that is hardier anyway) has never had ich (knock on wood).

[gman0526]

Set up a QT. and take all the fish out of the tank. There you treat them accordingly (FW dips, coppersafe) keep them there for at least a month. This will assure you that ich has gone through their life cycle and perished since there is no food. A cleaner shrimp is not going to erradicate ich permanently from your tank. Sorry, but is not that simple. :(

[fppf]

I have 2 cleaner shrimp in there.
They help with the occasional spot but not a sick fish.

I also have a Blue Hippo or Regal Tang and a Thread Fin Butter Fly. Both which have had ich in the past. I spent most of my summer fighting ich.

Just MY PERSONAL OPINION (you can dissagree if you wish) let nature take its corse unless the ich becomes life threatening. As long as the fish is breathing normal and not freaking out I leave them alone. I also don't use a QT tank anymore, I did.

Here is why I think the way I do.....
I beleave there is ich in every system, just like there is bacteria on every table. I don't think there is anyway to get it out. I the begining I treated everything wet in a QT tank for 6 weeks before it went in the main tank. The fish still got ich. Then I took them all out for 6 weeks and retreated them and they still got ich. So I left them in the main tank with the ich and with in 2 weeks of nothing but good food and good water they got better. I think fish are just like us, they have an imune system. When you stress out it gets weak and you get sick. Well I would stress out if you put me in a bag in the dark and put me in a car. Also when you are treating a QT tank with copper it can effect water quality which I feel adds to the problems.

So far he is looking ok and still eating. None of the other fish have ich, not even the hippo. So in he stays until I know he can't fight in him self.

I will keep you posted, thank you for the advice though. I know I'm bucking the general thinking but hey, if it works go with it.

[chucklepup]

Sometimes popular belief is wrong, letting the ich take it's corse might be the right thing to do. I guess it's like parents who sterilize everything in there house and then their kids get alergies because their immune systems can't fight off anything. I also think that with medication you can do more harm than good unless you really know what you're doing.

[fppf]

So far so good!
Today is the first day of improvment. He still looks like hell but not as bad. Attitude is good and still eating. None of the other fish in the tank got it. I think he is out of the woods for now. Time will tell if he has a full recovery.

[gman0526]

OK, first off there isn't ich in every tank. Ich has a lifecycle like every other organism, ich's happens to be 30-45 days. They reproduce, go into a free swimming stage, they find a host a.ka. "Your fishes" from whom they feed, they are parasites which means they feed off their host, after this they dislodge from the host, fall in the sustrate, and reproduce again. By removing the fishes from your tank what you do is taking out the food source from the system so: No food= starved ich.

The problem with letting Ich "take it's course" is that there's a good chance that ich will attach themselves to your fish's gills and then kaput no more fish. Ich/fish is not like bacteria and antibiotics. If you take a leech and let it suck on your skin that will not make your body inmune to leeches in the future they are parasitic animals. And this is not popular belief, these are facts. But in the end you decide whatever method you think is better. Good luck JMHO

[fppf]

Oh I understand the commen beleafs all to well.
I battled it all summer for months.

The simple observation is my Powder blue looks like a french fry at the end of a salt shaker. I can take a picture if you wish. But at the same time my Blue Hippo is Ich free? Conventional thinking says this can't happen. Why only one fish in the tank has it and the rest are ich free?

Ich attaching to the gills is a VERY serous issue. That is why I monitor my fish VERY close. If the ich start getting in the gills the fish will start to have labored breathing or fast gill movement. If this happens I will take him out and put him in copper treatment right away.

I think there is more to ich than just a leech on the fish. I think the fish has some type of deffense that happens.

[jman785]

Freshwater dipping and a quarantine tank, will be your best bet. I'm not sure of the best product, as I have had my luck with FW Dips, and QT. I wouldn't have any substrate by the way in my QT tank...nor decorations...just a plain bare-bottom tank is best for a QT/Hospital Tank.

From MarineAquariumAdvice.com

Cryptocaryon irritans is an obligate parasite, meaning that it cannot complete its life cycle (at the trophont stage) without a host fish. Taking into account that the normal time frame in which tomonts will hatch ranges from 3 to 28 days, a fallow (without fish) period of 30 days to 6 weeks is recommended to eliminate this parasite from an aquarium. Removing all potential hosts from a system for this period of time should eradicate the pest from the aquarium. If the fish are removed from the display to another aquarium for treatment and an effective means of therapy (i.e. hyposalinity or copper treatments) is employed, then those fish will be clean of infection.

From MarineAquariumAdvice.com

Copper-based medications (some contain other chemicals in combination with copper) should only be administered in an aquarium that does not contain invertebrates, rock, substrate or other calcareous material.

Copper suppresses immune function and is highly stressful to fish. Copper is also toxic to fish, but to a lesser degree than with invertebrates. Administering a dose that is too high may kill the fish being treated. If the copper level is not high enough then the treatment will be ineffective. This necessitates testing the copper level twice a day and making adjustments as needed.

I have personally used Cupramine™, a Seachem product, several times with "copper sensitive species" such as lionfish, puffers, dwarf angels and mandarins with impressive results. In my experience, it has been more effective and better tolerated than other forms of copper. Seachem recommends .5ppm as the correct dosage for Cupramine. However, I have used this product successfully at .4ppm.

[jman785]

That's from another thread that was going on, figured I'd 'share the wealth'

[fppf]

Well thank you for sharing the wealth. I do enjoy reading and posting on these forums. Just wish there was more activity on them.

This morning he is almost ich free and a happy fish.
We will see in the few days if the ich comes back worse I will most likely take him out of the tank. If it does not come back at all or comes back in less amount I will leave him in. None of the other fish are showing any signs of infection as of yet.

He is eating VERY well now, he chowed down a ton of brine and mowed down a bunch of the micro algae. He was actually chasing my thread fin butter fly away from the brine. This is the first fish to do this, the butter fly takes eating very seriously!

Its been a week today so I keep you "posted" as to how he is doing.

For the most part fppf, I am with you on this issue. I think too that ich is in every system as you do, and that its just a given in any system. I think our critters to an extend have an imune system as well. I think the issue of someone having an ich issue, is a more a question of the tank and its inhabitants over all health as opposed to wheather ich is present in the system or not.

I still support and recommend QT though irregardless. It gives me far more options to nurse a victim back to tip top health as opposed to just letting nature run its course. Besides I spent way too many "fun dollars" on my critters to take that approach anyways. The other issue I like about QT, is if you have ever had Red Acro Bugs, Prymid Snails and lost hundreds of dollars as a result I bet you would use one a heck of a lot more. From that aspect a QT tank is jus one more cheap but valuable line of defense in me having a happy & hopefully healthy tank too....

[jman785]

Can you tell me where there is some information that backs this theory up though Imaexpat? Such as Ich in every system...and the immune system...I'd like more information regarding these.

jamn thats more of an opinon than fact. I mean by the time you add live sand, live rock, fish and such your bound to transfer a few of the larva "innoculating" the tank so to speak. Whether it got there via fish or what ever I think you will eventually have it in your system, as I dont see how we can possibly keep our tanks that "sterile". I think the problem mainly arises as fish get stressed out irregardless if its due to over stocking or poor water quality or poor diet they become more suseptable to diseases and such. In a display tank where you can not treat such as a reef tank...Why would ich just "go away" in a tank with host present to keep the ich life cycle going, as I have seen in some of my tanks, freshwater and reef tanks? Admittedly I am not an "authority" in this area...just thinking out aloud. I have read material in which the larva are in a free floating stage and I have read where in some stages it resides in the sand bed or rock until attaching to a host. Is this bum gouge?

[fppf]

Things are still going good.
He still has what I would call a mild case of ich but it does not seem to be bothering him like it did. He is eating VERY well, I put seaweed on a clip and its gone within minutes. Then he pushes the other fish out of the way to eat all the brine he can. He is actually becoming a little bit of a bully, but nothing the others can't handle. The tank is in my living room and he was scared of the TV at first but seems to be getting used to his new enviroment. He sleeps way in the back in a cave under the live rock.

All the rest of the fish seem to except him now and are not affraid of him any more. None of the other fish are showing any signs of ich.

[fppf]

Well here is another update!!

He is doing very well. So far the Ich has not gotten worse, but it has not totally gone away. There still are some very small spots and his skin is a little bummpy where he had it bad. All in all his attitude is good, he has become very personable. He is eating like a cow. Brine goes away in no time flat, seaweed is gone off a clip in 5, and my back glass is cleaner than it been in a long time. I think he eats more than my mower blenny!

All the other fish are doing good and he loves to swim around with my Thread Fin Butterfly. They do get a little pushy with each other during feeding time though.
Here is an updated pic, sorry its a little blurry but I took 25 pics and he just would not hold still!! Good thing its digital!
http://members.aol.com/fppf/Pic/tang2.jpg

[fppf]

The Powder Blue was doing good for the last week.
The Ich was gone and he healed up nicely.

However, this morning I noticed a few new spots on him.
Last night I was QTing my star fish and I wonder if I stressed him??

This fish eats like a horse! He is by far the most agressive eater in the tank.

[SHANGAI]

I STARTED MY CYCLE WITH ONE OF THESE BABY, AT THE MOMENT HE ARRIVE HES STARTED PIKING ON THE ROCKS, HE PASSED AL THE CYCLE SUCESSFULLY, BUT WITHIN 3 MONTH HE DIE CAUSE ICH, EVEN MY DAMISELS GOT ICK, SO ADDED A HUGE UV, AND SUDENLY, THE ICK DESAPEARED., BUT IT WAS TO LATE FOR MY POWDER. IT ISNT THAT BAD TO KEEP THEM WITHIN US, AT T HIS MOMMENT I HAVE A BROWN POWDER FROMA STORE NEAR MY HOUSE, AND THIS BABY IS LOOKING DAMN GOOD.......