Red Acro Bugs...

Has anyone had any problems with these guys yet?

I had a couple of SPS corals that werent looking too healthy and on closer inspection discovered I have the dreaded Red Acro Bugs. I was kinda curoious how others have delt with this problem....

[FishinInTheDark]

My condolences Expat! I don't know what the solution is, but I'm sorry you have the problem. . .

Conni

Well its only affecting 6 acros in that tank max, so all is not lost. Luckily its not a quick killer like RTN, so there are still a chance of fixing it.

I have herd that Interceptor or Sentenial works well and is realitively safe, although it will kill all pods, crabs and shrimp. The active ingreadiant is sorta of a neuro-Toxin. Unfortunately I dont have a dog so getting this medication is kinda tricky as it requires a prescription.

I was just wondering if anyopne here has delt with this malady yet and if so what kinda success they had

[MikeS]

Can you order it online? If not, I bet you could find a vet that would be willing to get you some if you told him what it is for.....

Mike

Cant order on line without a prescription faxed to the supplier, already tried that one.

I did find a vet that has a lick of sense, apparently those kind are in short supply here, and will prescribe it but, has to make a house call to "establish" a patient (my corals) Doctor realtionship. Read that as "I dont want this misuesed and to be held liable". Which is cool as I can understand that, and at least he had an open mind and didnt say no half way through my explanation of what I wanted it for and why. So I will give him props there.

I was just mainly curious if anyone else had any experience with this problem and if not to make others aware that this porblem is out there and to be carefull when trading frags or buying new corals.

I first noticed this problem about 6 weeks ago when I got 4 corals from E-Tropicals that I added to my tank. I QTed the new additions but didnt notice anything out of the ordinary until they had been in my display tank for a while.

[tdevil]

well, i have had them and lost a blue tip because of it (my avatar), but the rest of my SPSs survived

what i did was a major iodine dip, i think this is what actually killed the blue tip, but the 3 others made it but were later taken to coral heaven due to a power outage

here is a link to AAOM about this parasite
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/june2003/feature.htm

HTH

Jay

Yeah, I have herd of doing the iodine dip and that there has been some good results doing that. That would obviously be the path of least resistance.

But, wouldnt that be like dipping my Boa in meds to kill mites and then putting him back into the mite infested cage that has not been disinfected? Or unlike mites on my Boa, do these guys die after a short period with no host to leach on?

Oh btw sorry to hear about you loosing your corals. what a bummer. Right now this is effecting both my Blue Torts, a bright green Bali Staghorn, a Turquoise Bali Staghorn and another acropora of unknown species as well as a Tri -Color.

That sucks....

[tdevil]

this parasite, as i understand it, is only going to affect acro's so i dont think they are in the tank, just the coral/s itself and it will move from acro to acro

after i did the dip the other corals did just fine and grew quit a bit, i was getting ready to frag them when the pwr went out while i was @ work, the paper said it was out for around 10hrs i only got the last few hrs of it and did what i could, but wasnt enough :(

i hope you get through this, keep me updated
maybe Mojo (Mike) will pop in and give some better help or give him a PM, he might know more about them

Jay

Thats cool, I was just kinda equating this to a mite infestation like I would have with my snakes or with chickens back at the farm. Understanding of course that these two are quiet different from corals.

So would you recommend a dip in SeaChems reef dip and then place the afected corals into a 10 gallon QT with adequate lighting, filtration and what not and see if there is an improvement?

BTW appreciate the help and ideas, just looking for clues at the scene of the crime thats all....

Well I tried the reef disinfectant dip on two of my affected acros and will see what the results look like in a hwile and report back on the results or lack there of....

This really bums me out as its a killer looking Bali Staghorn!

Well the first two victims are looking like they are comming back to life again. Still kinda hard to tell if it worked or not. I see a few but its hard to tell if they are dead in just stuck in the corals mucus or if they are still "kickin it live"

[FishinInTheDark]

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=380591

I think you're doing the right thing. This thread suggests that the prescription stuff doesn't work as well as the dips.

Well thanks for the moral support. I have four of the affected "victims dipped and in a QT tank recovering and looking pretty good for the most part. Dont seem like any of the Bad Guys made it though the dip, I hope. The two Blue Torts and Green Slimmer dont seem to be affected by this dispite being Acros. I guess by am I should know if it was worth the hassle or not.

I agree, although this has worked (interceptor) for many I really dont like the idea of "nukin" my tank with something that essentailly is a Neuro Toxin. The dips had a good track record but I wasnt sure if they would get re-infected when added back to the main tank. Guess we will see.

[jman785]

http://www.coralforum.com/ftopic3560.html

Check out this post...it will be featured in our Weekly Discussions section soon!

Please add any information you have about Red Acro Bugs.

Well I still got them on a couple of corals although the numbers are very low. I will probably dip them again soon and see if that deals them the final blow. The corals are looking a tad bit better though.

[mdmaquatic]

Hey Imaexpat... dipped mine in the 5 ml to 1 liter solution tonigh. Killed those buggers dead. We'll see if they come back.

The first dip looked really promising but they came back but just a few. I will try a stronger dip than I did before and see what happens.

I only mixed 5 mils per a gallon as per the instructions and dipped them for 15 minutes as recommended in a lot of research I have done.

I iwll give it another shot. Thanks for the hot tip. Let me know how it goes with you.

[mdmaquatic]

Hey Imaexpat2... how did that dip go?? and that was supposed to be 5ml to 1 Liter, not gal. As prescribed by Eric Borneman, do it for only 30 sec to 2 min max dpending on conlony size. We had great success with it. Dipped once, the remaining once in the tank collected back to the corals within a few hours and dipped again the next day. We have not had them return again. No my question is, should we use such a strong dip on corals that have just arrived or does everyone think the standard amount is suffiecient?? I would hate to think that i have to make such strong solution everytime we recieve an order. Not only is that alot of lugols but the corals are already stressed from shipping, how many SDR/RTN 's wil there be?? Do the benfits outweigh the losses?? Looking for everyones opinons??

Well re-dipped the corals as above and it looks as though I ot them all this time. I will be watching them over the next several days and see what happens. Looks as though I might lose the ORA Torquoise Acropora though as it looks as though the top half is slowly bleaching....I guess thats okay if this will save the other 4 Acros that have been effected.

[FishinInTheDark]

Congrats and regrets to you Pat! I'm glad you saved most of them, and sorry you lost one of your favs. Way to go beating that pest!

Conni

Well I aint lost it yet but it aint looking good for the home team though. Only two of the five are showing any polyp extention, and the two that are are pretty weak at that. The up side is I see no bugs! So maybe I got them finally. One thing is for sure...I am tired of playing this game! Thanks for the support though....

[NaH2O]

Hey! I put 3 new tri-color acros in my tank a week ago, and noticed red bugs this afternoon (funny thing is I picked up the frag to look at it while I was doing maintenance - something I don't normally do). I did an iodine dip prior to introduction, not because I saw red bugs (and i did look, obviously not hard enough), but because I was being precautionary. I had researched red bugs before, trying to learn something, as with all the trading going on I figured I'd get them sooner or later. What I've found is, sometimes even straight iodine dips don't kill them all the way, and it only takes 2 of them to breed and make more. Some corals like the slimers don't get the RBs....not understood if it is the amount of slime produced. Some corals are very effected by the RBs, other corals grow and act fine with them. It also isn't understood if the RBs are eating at the coral, or trying to eat something else present on the coral.

The treatment method I've read for interceptor, should be done with successive treatments, as the life cycle isn't fully understood. Where are the eggs, larvae, etc? I removed the 3 effected frags from my tank, as they were on rubble pieces that could simply pull out of the tank, and I have one other unknown acro species that I did see one bug on. I'm going to research on how long a tank should be acro free for the red bugs to die off without a host. This is easy for me because the corals had not encrusted on anything other than rubble. I don't want to treat my tank if I don't have to. If you are having trouble finding a veterinarian to prescribe interceptor, you may have better luck if you print out this detailed treatment plan to show. It may also help you to sign a waiver indicating you won't hold the vet or practice liable if something goes wrong. Here is the link (for those that haven't read it):

The "Cure" for Red Acro Bugs (http://reefs.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=45859)

The amount of trading going on - it will be difficult for us in the future, IMO. I'm not sure what we can do. Frags are so important to the continuation of this hobby, and these ******s are difficult to see. Some uninformed aquarists may not even realize they have the bugs and are spreading them to other tanks.

Just say "NO" to Red Acro Bugs :)

Nikki your over here too?

Yeah I tried to get the interceptor but it was going to cost me a house visit plus the prescription. I tried to order in canada on line and they want a faxed copy of the prescription, something I dont have so I had to try and alternative...

[NaH2O]

lol - I'm everywhere :)

I would really keep an eye on your acros for more. Take them out and look them over really well, have you tried manual removal with tweezers? What sucks is they are so small....it hurts your eyes after staring at them for too long.

Do you have a vet in your local club? If the vet needs to come over and examine the corals, to establish a patient, then that wouldn't be such a bad thing. He/She is doing the right thing making certain you are using it for what you say you are. The veterinarian may even become a fellow reefer after watching your tank.

True enough Nikki but I just retired from the military and am inbetween jobs at the moment, so moneys a bit snug. The only vet that would entertain the issue was pretty cool about it but insisted on establishing a patient Dr relationship which of course I can respect. Just not sure I got a 100 bucks for someone to come over and go "yep, thats a coral, yep I see red bugs, here ya go, and that will be.... :shock: " :lol: .

I wasnt real thrilled about "Nuking" my tank with a product thats a neuro toxin either unless it was a last resort. The SeaChem did kill them off the corals and they are in QT at the moment, but it looks like it was almost as rough on the corals as it was on the red bugs so I might lose 2 of the 5, jury still out on that one.

I too am wondering just how long my tank has to be acro free to be safe to put them back in the tank too? If you get a hot lead on that please PM me or post it here on the forum if you would be so kind...

[MikeS]

If you are having trouble finding a veterinarian to prescribe interceptor, you may have better luck if you print out this detailed treatment plan to show. It may also help you to sign a waiver indicating you won't hold the vet or practice liable if something goes wrong. Here is the link (for those that haven't read it):

The "Cure" for Red Acro Bugs (http://reefs.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=45859)

Thanks Nikki!

Mike

I did that mike and it worked with 1 out of 7 vets that I confronted about it. Most didnt even wait for me to finish explaining before saying No in no uncertain terms, which I thought was pretty $%^&*( up. I mean come on...Its not like I can use it to get high on or something like that. I can kinda relate too though to the liability issue though that they often times face becuase of stupid people. So I really cant fault the guy for wanting to first establish a patient/dr relationship, he is just CYA, you know...

[NaH2O]

I hear ya on the money issue. I'm not jazzed about spending money on interceptor. GAAA - and I swore up and down I would thoroughly inspect every acro I put in my tank for these little pests (and I did, just not close enough). Would the vet accept it if you took one of the corals to the practice to show him, so you wouldn't have a trip charge? LOL - here are people sitting in the lobby with their dogs and cats....and you come in with your cooler containing corals. I can imagine the people sitting there looking at you with the cooler, wondering what is in it. You could peek in the cooler occasionally, and shout "Down boy!" - then look up and smile. Anyway - just a thought I had, if the vet was going to charge you for the drive. At least he would be able to see the bugs you are talking about.

I'll let you know what I learn about the life cycle. Dustin is busy, I'm sure, with ORA at the moment, but I hope he checks in on the thread. I'll do a little research this week and see what I can come up with.

I would sure appreciate that if you would be so kind...

Yeah I bet, Id get some funny looks. Lol. Should have been there when I came in asking for interceptor then had to explain when they asked to see the dog that I didnt have a dog I had coral....What a Kodak moment that was seeing the double take they did....when they went huh? Doc was pretty cool about it but I dont think he will wave the office vist though, but seemed exceptionally interested about the development from the forum on this.

[jman785]

I can get a deal on Interceptor I do believe....we work very closely with a few vets at the Gulfarium ;) I'm going to go call them and see.

[FishinInTheDark]

If you can get a script, you can order from this website:

http://www.omahavaccine.com/search_products.cfm?search=interceptor&x=49&y=13

We get all our animals' supplies there except rabies which can't be shipped across state lines. I'd be willing to bet it's much, much cheaper than the prescribing vet will sell it to you. As an example, my large dog has allergies, and has to take steroids every other day. The vet will sell us 30 pills for 30 dollars. We can get 100 pills there for something like $7. We also do all their vaccines (except rabies) for similar discounts. Makes the shipping worth it!

Maybe you could put the acros in QT and nuke it with this stuff?

[jman785]

Conni,

The vet happens to be a good family friend, as well as has worked side by side with the aquarium my father has been working at for over 30 yrs.

So basically the package we'd need would be the 32.00 one, so I'll try and get a price and see what I can do with it.

[FishinInTheDark]

Sounds like a plan. I'm glad you have an "in" like that. It sure makes it easier!

[MikeS]

What I wonder is why the vets are so hesitant....I mean really, how does one abuse heartworm medicine?

Mike

Thats what I am thinking...its not like I was a young teen or something and you cant get high on it so....

[NaH2O]

The problem is....if a dog that happens to be heartworm positive ingests the Interceptor, it can die. The vet would be held responsible for prescribing the medication without being sure the dog wasn't heartworm negative. Even though the interceptor is for a fish tank, there is a chance the person would have a dog that's heartworm positive, yadda yadda yadda. So many variables. I did speak with my vet today (had the cats in), and she seemed very interested in learning more about the parasites and treatment as a whole. Another route would be the vet school in your state - See if they have an Aquatic Medicine department....I suppose you could do the same for a local aquarium or zoo. Also - see if there is a vet in your local club.

So far, I've read 2 month acro free to be safe, but I'm trying to get a definite answer.

[Kip]

a slower more natural solution that has worked for me .. and a few others is to use amino acids... this allows the acro to fight the bugs themselves

there is a lot of preliminary/anecdotal info on aminos and RB's .. .but i can tell you for sure that it worked for me

red bugs are not naturally found on acros in nature (per some study.. i forget)
captive acros tend to have less aminos than wild ones ... so there is the suspected to link

[NaH2O]

Kip, if you could find the study I would really appreciate it. I thought they were native to corals in the Marshall Islands, but I can't be certain. They originated from somewhere. Interesting about the amino acids, definately something to consider.

Imaexpat2 - I received a response from Dustin regarding the length of time a tank to be acro free. He thought a couple of months would be good. I do plan on setting up a QT for all newly aquired corals, and to treat the acros that I have. I had read a post from Greg Hiller indicating that it was a week or two without acros and the tank was bug free. I would need to find the quote again for accuracy (if you are really interested), but I think it is safe to say a couple of months is alright. I would love to keep the main tank from the Interceptor treatment.....mainly because we are dumping a chemical in with unknown longterm results.

Anyway, some things I have been thinking about.

You could peek in the cooler occasionally, and shout "Down boy!" - then look up and smile.

LOL Nikki!!!

[NaH2O]

I've been trying to find information on where the bugs originated from, if known. I couldn't find the post where I thought the person indicated they were from Marshall Islands, and I'm not sure if the person who put up the post was basing that on documentated info. I did speak with someone in the business/aquarium industry that doesn't think they (red bugs) were specific to one region. At any rate, I don't think it really matters, where they came from, just how to deal with them, or if they need to be dealt with.

[MikeS]

Just a side question here....I don't have SPS but I'm curious....

Do these "red bugs" kill the infected coral(s) every time? And once in the system, are they impossible to remove without treatment? ie...will they just run their course and die off like many other aquarium pests?

Just curious....

Mike

I dont think they will kill the corals everytime but I havent tested that theory yet. They will look like crap and have very minimal polyp extension if at all and this indeed could prove fatal but I am not sure its fatal everytime. It doesnt effect all acros either. Bali Green Slimmers seem to be immune to it. It didnt effect my Blue Torts or Purple Monster from Steve Tyree either. So there remains a lot of unanswered questions about these pest. Rumor control has it that it will die off after running its course, but again I havent finnished testing that one yet either. As far as natrual preditors I think it kinda falls in the catagory of Pyrimid snails in that there really isnt an effective preditor out there that will consume or kill them. It doesnt seem to effect montiporas or Milliporas either, at least in my case it didnt. Thats about all I know about them other than they suck! Maybe Nikki can fill us in more about this....

[NaH2O]

I don't believe they kill the corals everytime. From what I've seen and talked to a few people, some systems have them and are completely fine. I also understand that the Green Slimers don't get them, or haven't been observed to have them. The hypothesis is it has something to do with the amount of slime, from what I've read. Another understanding I have about these bugs is they are specific to Acropora genus, so you won't find them on the Montis. I have been questioning what the red bugs are doing.....are they eating the coral, or only irritating it, or eating something else that is eating the coral? Compare to some bristleworms....people see them eating on a dying/dead fish and automatically assume the bristleworm is bad - that it killed the fish. As for natural predators, Greg Hiller at the MACNA coral prop workshop indicated there is a pipefish that has been found to eat these guys, but I believe it is a hit or miss situation. I also read a post somewhere where a hobbyist tried it and the pipefish were uninterested.

Imaexpat2 - how are your corals doing after all the dipping?

Nikki

I lost the ORA Torquoise Staghorn Colony that I had, but the rest seem to be doing okay still. Havent seen any of the bugs since, so I will keep my fingers crossed...

Yes, I knew about the Pipefish, but knew also they were kinda like a 6 Line Wrasse and prymid snails....Hit or Miss.

I noticed that the affected corals lost color and the polyps didnt extend much if at all when infested with the "Red Acro Bugs". Not sure if it was an irritation issue or if they were like a tick and just leaching of them...

[firefish2020]

The Interceptor treatment is a pain but it works. I removed every crab I could find (around 55 or so) and treated for 3 weeks. Within a month color was showing in corals that had been affected by the red devils. I lost no shrimp or snails. The treatment did kill some microfauna Im sure as I experienced a slight algae bloom that lasted about 2 weeks then cleared up. You can beat the bugs but you have to bite the bullet ;)