callling all mantis freaks

[cruzeoc]

i want a mantis to go in my sump but how thick should the glass be i hear they can smash there way out (how cool)

[Condiman]

My cousin has one in a 10 gallon aquarium. He hasnt had any problems yet.

[gman0526]

I had one in a 10 gal as well never had a problem.

[tdevil]

ok, well i guess im a freak :)

i have a male OS (Odontodactylus scyllarus) Stomatopod
what are usually called Peacock

i have him in a 30g glass tank, just because i had it from taking down my fresh tanks :)

yes you can have it in a 10g, but depending on what type of Stomatopod you get, or want, i would go a bit larger just to be safe (better safe than sorry) because they can smash the glass (as you know)

also Plexi is always better :)

here is the Stomatopod site
http://www.blueboard.com/mantis/

here is a quick write-up that a friend did (Basic Stomatopod Care)
http://www.fragexchange.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1878

HTH

Jay

[tdevil]

ok, i have to post a pic
sorry :)

http://www.reefsanctuary.com/photopost/data/503/80Mantis_147_Medium_-med.jpg

Jay

[Sugar Magnolia]

soooo creepy looking!

[cruzeoc]

ok but what about thickness of the glass ??

Cruzoc,

You need to decide what species you want to keep. Numerous species can do just fine in a thin-walled 10 gallon tank. If you wanted an O.s. (peacock) like Jay has, you would be very foolish to put it in a 10 gallon unless it was still a baby. As they get older and larger, they become more and more strong. Peacocks can reach 8-9 inches long and their strike has the velocity of a 22 caliber bullet. If you are wanting a peacock, once it hits 4 inches long, you better get a larger tank or go acrylic.

You have to decide what species you want. For example, Neogonodactylus wennerae can be kept in just about anything without worry of breakage (other than glass heaters...read the link that Jay put up).

I am in the process of writing an article on Mantis. It likely won't be available for several weeks but keep your eyes open.

Jay is a much better photographer than me. However, I thought I would show you a pic of Cuddles. My first O.s. got named Fluffy as a joke and the silly names have continued. I also have two wennerae right now but I'm always on the prowl for another mantis.

http://www.reeffrontiers.com/motm/october_2004/images/cuddleseating.jpg

[cruzeoc]

this is brilliant thanks all and thank you mantisfreak lovely pic im going to my lfs tomorrow so i will order one but go through every requirment with them i should get him in 3 weeks i want to keep him at the lfs till i no my sump is good enouth 4 him thanks all i will do pics when he gets here

[tdevil]

good info as always Curt :)

i didnt know that you also had two wennerae's

when you get that article done, LMK :)

and im not a better photographer, i just get lucky every now and then

also, i named mine Squishy

Jay

PS, here is another link for your reading, also a video :)
http://www.berkeley.edu/news/media/releases/2004/04/21_shrimp.shtml

[MattTheFish]

Sorry but im just curious how many Neogonodactylus wennerae can go in a 10 gallon sump?

[LittlePuff]

http://www.ucmp.berkeley.edu/arthropoda/crustacea/malacostraca/eumalacostraca/royslist/

Kim

This might help people who want to keep mantis.

You've all seen the posts before. "All 3 of my fish died...what could've caused it?" The answer comes back, "You must have a mantis". That is actually highly unlikely. Smashers can take out small fish but rarely do. I've even kept fish successfully in my mantis tanks. On the other hand, if your missing a small snail and you find a broken shell, you probably have a mantis.

First of all, while they definately do have the fastest movement in the animal world, most of the species that are common hitchhikers cannot break your aquarium or hand. It's simple Newtonian physics. Force = Mass x Acceleration. The smaller mantis have the acceleration thing down pat. However, they don't have the mass in their clubs. The picture that Jau and I linked to is a peacock mantis. It is one of my favorite species. When full grown, they can break small tanks and they can hurt you so keep your hands out of the tank. Unfortunately they are never hitchhikers.

I apologize in advance that this post is concentrated on smashers. However, I've never kept spearers so my knowledge is limited to what I've read for them.

I have to tell you. I've done softy tanks, SPS tanks, mixed reefs (not a good idea ), etc., etc., and so on. In the course of doing this, I have observed a lot of interesting critters. However, none have ever been more interesting than my mantis. Not only that, mantis have been the only animals that observe me back. I'm not talking about getting excited about being fed like cats, dogs, and fish...I'm talking about a quite intelligent creature studying me right back.

I have kept many species of mantis. Most hitchhiking species do not require an acrylic tank. However, if you want to keep my favorite species (Peacock Mantis) it will be a VERY good idea once it hits about 5 inches or so. If you have a small nano with very thin glass (like an eclipse) and you desire a medium size mantis as opposed to a small one, it is a very good idea to put a thin piece of plexiglass on the bottom of the tank before putting down a sanbed. Once they get into den building mode and they start banging, they could care less if it is rock they are banging or glass. There are species that are even larger than peacocks but I've never once seen them available to anyone other than scientists.

There is one thing that ALL smasher species of mantis requires even if it is a small hitchhiker...a titanium heater or a cage around a glass heater (unless your heater is in a sump). I can't tell you how many smasher-mantis have met an untimely death due to electrocution by hitting the ultra-thin glass used in most heaters.

It's real easy for me to advise you on a spearer tank. A VERY deep sandbed. That's about it. Unfortunately, you won't see a spearer very often in captivity and you won't get one as a hitchhiker because they don't live in LR.

For smashers, a good setup truly depends on the species you have and/or want as I alluded to above. I have had good results by creating a den for mantis using PVC tubing (size depending on species) and covering it with LR. You want the tubing to be 1 and 1/2 larger than full grown size of the mantis so they can turn around (and you will be quite surprised on how quickly they can turn around). Do NOT put the other open end of the tubing against one of the glass walls. They get into redecorating mode often (just like my wife) and if there is any type of barrier against extending their den, they may or may not decide to keep banging on it until they get through. Remember, they get stronger as they get bigger. Your specimen may not take to your den at first because you will have placed it in such a way as to maximize view. However, I've found that once you become known as the "bringer of food" and they are more comfortable, they will accept this new den. Regardless, I've found that they will make a secondary den too. Provide shells and small pieces of rubble for them to decorate, and re-decorate, and re-decorate, ad-infinitum.

Why hyper-salinity dips don't work to remove most mantis.

Many mantis live on patch-reefs and intertidal zones. When the tide goes out for half of the day, the water pools, evaporation happens, the temperature in the tidepool increases substantially, and the salinity continues to go through the roof until the tide comes back. They are accustomed to this type of abuse.

Where did my mantis go? He's been doing well for months and he/she put a whole bunch of rubble in front of the den and I haven't seen it for days.

It's molting. They have an exoskeleton and eventually their tissue size will outsize it. They have to shed it in a similar manner to shrimp. Leave the molt in for a day or two. They will often eat it for calcium, strontium, and other needs. Then discard it. BTW...the molt on the first day will be an EXACT duplicate of your mantis. Unfortunately, just like in nature, this is the most likely time to lose a mantis.

Should I add Iodine to help my mantis shrimp molt?

Heck no. Mantis shrimp are not shrimp, they are stomatopods. However, this is one area where they are similar. Just like shrimp they have an exoskeleton and adding Iodine MAKES them molt, it doesn't HELP them. If you force them to molt too early, you are severely weakening it.

How do I make my mantis like me?

All living things have an innate instinct for security, food, and procreation. Provide them with a secure den, and from the beginning don't allow any natural foods for a while. You need to provide it. Once they feel secure, you will then become the "bringer of food". It's not a good idea to put more than one mantis in a nano because sexing them is hard to do unless you are holding onto them. In nature, mantis of the same species and sex merely engage in "I'm tougher than you" contests like rams and they both walk away at the end. However, in a small nano tank, there isn't sufficient retreating area. In other words, don't try to breed them unless you are SURE of their sexes. Most species breed with the same partner for life.

I understand that in nature, some critter is always eating another critter to survive. However, I cannot put something in my tank that might be killed.

If so, then a mantis probably isn't a good animal for a species-tank for you. If you have a smasher, once you earn their trust, you will have to start adding a clean-up crew. If mantis don't exercise their clubs, they will lose them in the next molt. With feeding of your mantis, most of your clean-up crew will be left alone. (They are quite intelligent and prefer free food over food that requires work). However, they will slowly one by one disappear over time.

Should I put my hand in the tank?

I'm quite popular in St. Louis when someone has a mantis. That's because I will grab SMALL mantis out of a local reefers tank with my bare hand. They will back up from it like I pulled out a lion or a grizzly bear. Being afraid of a 1 inch G. wennerae as opposed to an 8 in peacock is like being terrified of kittens because lions have killed humans before.

I've heard clicking and have a couple broken snail shells so I'm sure I have one. I tried the red lense over the flashlight trick at night but could not see my mantis.

In addition to being able to see polarized lighting, many species can also see in ultraviolet and/or infrared light. The red lens trick is not going to work on most species.

Zack,

Can you change the profanity censor to allow the words:

P e a c o c k M a n t i s

[LittlePuff]

stupid!! :shock: :lol:


Kim

[Chubosco]

Frankly, I have always been of the belief that mantis should go the way of the passenger pigeon. Ever buy live rock and then spend hours trying to remove them? However, for those who love them here is a link to heaven for you Grimreefers.com. Enjoy the clip of a fight between the large crayfish and hometeam mantis.

[Doctor_Reef]

Can't find it!!! :wink:

[jasno999]

Awsome pic. Those things scare me and amaze me at the same time.

[tdevil]

looks like my pics didnt make it when the site was combined/updated, we just cant have that ;)

female

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y30/tazreef/newpicsmantis142Small.jpg

male

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y30/tazreef/Mantis147.jpg


Jay

[jasno999]

Holy crap that is a great photo.

[tdevil]

thanks ;)

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y30/tazreef/clam014.jpg


Jay

[jasno999]

IT almost makes me want one... But I want to keep my fingers on my hand :)

[tdevil]

lmao ;)

i can understand that, where tongs come into play. unless you are like crazy Curt, lol

i do have to say that these are one of the most interesting critters i have ever owned/housed. the hours they spend making their den, etc is amazing. even though i tried to help the den along, before i got the male a few years ago, they still make it their own. there really isnt much special that you have to do, besides trying not to rescape the tank every month like i tend to do w/ the reef, there are a few things, but nothing major, imo.

Jay

[Doctor_Reef]

Nice pic Jay... Great critter!!! :fing02:

[Mantisfreak]

lmao ;)

i can understand that, where tongs come into play. unless you are like crazy Curt, lol

Well I don't use my hands with PEACOCK MANTIS!!! LOL I have at least half of a brain. :) With wennerae, smitii, and other small species, I don't worry about it.


i do have to say that these are one of the most interesting critters i have ever owned/housed.

Ditto

[jasno999]

How big is that thing and how big will it get?

[tdevil]

lmao, Curt

my male was around 6-7" and the female around 5"
http://www.ucmp.berkeley.edu/arthropoda/crustacea/malacostraca/eumalacostraca/royslist/species.php?name=o_scyllarus

not sure about Curt's

note: even small they still pack a punch

Jay

[tdevil]

there eyes are cool ;)

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y30/tazreef/clam030.jpg

Curt's sig banner has one also

Jay

[Ryguy]

Those are some cool critters. I had one in my tank a few years ago, but the wife made me get rid of it. It freaked her out

[tdevil]

lol, wife always thought it was going to swim out of the tank and get her, lmao

every time it would smash a snail or rock she would move over a bit, the tank is next to the couch ;)

Jay

[Ryguy]

My wife has a fear of big fish and strange sea critters. It's hard enough to convince her that bristle worms are a good thing LOL!!

[Mantisfreak]

My first Peacock, hated both my wife and my yellow lab. She didn't mind Rachel until the great "Vacuuming Incident". She was trying to get up some dog hair where the desk met the carpet and kept repeatedly banging on the desk (that held the tank) with the vacuum. When she looked up, Fluffy was out of her den in a full meral spread. This is a meral spread and it's an aggressive sign that they want to strike you. They are trying to make themselves look bigger. http://www.blueboard.com/mantis/pics/cline_meral.htm After that, whenever Rachel walked up to the tank (with or without a vacuum), Fluffy went into war mode.

She didn't like Cheyenne because Cheyenne would put her nose on the tank and wait for the 'hit', then bark her head off. Cherokee (chocolate lab) didn't care about her and Fluffy didn't care about Cherokee.

Jay,

What do you think about this macro of their eyes?

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b294/mantisfreak/35304592_6210909079.jpg

[tdevil]

WOW, what a great pic

Jay

[Doctor_Reef]

I totally agree with Jay....Great pic!!!

[jasno999]

awsome pic. Scary as crap

[gman0526]

Those eyes make for the best vision in the animal kingdom, that counts for something ;)

[tdevil]

how true that is ;)

Jay

[Toyota Guy]

Great information! I have a couple of mantis, each in there own tanks. My G. Smithi is my favorite, he is about 5" long and has a bad attitude:firedevil:

fantastic Pics!!!!! what kind of camera are you using?

[scotia-reefer]

It's not reefkeeping until you've come across a mantis! They're incredible creatures with great personalities. We have one now that we call Elvis. He wakes us up sometimes in the middle of night cracking open a midnight snack!:arg: