Checking up on questionable LFS advice.

[Whiskey]

My local fish store told me some weird things today. I went in to buy a couple of turbo snails and maybe some reef safe hermit crabs. I asked about how to properly acclimate the snails to my tank because I had heard they took awhile to adjust. I was told to simply dump them in because the acclimation process is way to stresfull. They went on to tell me that this is best for all salt water fish as well.

I was also told I need a min of 30 turbo snails for my 50G tank. At $3.99 a piece that could get pricey.

I have been told as well that making live rock out of Portland cement and crushed coral was a really bad idea because of the amount of copper in it. He said it would kill everything in my tank.

What do you all think about this advice???

I decided to do my 2 hour drip acclimation anyway because it always worked before however I would like to know for the future. They are dripping now.

Thanks,
Whiskey

[Zack]

I have also with all my inverts been very careful and done long drips with them, I would continue to do that. As for the amount, it depends how bad your algae is going to be. I would start off slow like 7-8 and go from there.

I am not as familar with that LR idea, but know some members here have done it.

[cich1]

i think if they have nice stock continue to buy from them but i wouldn't believe everything they say, i know theres rules to go by when it concerns clean-up crew but i believe you should go slow and add a little at a time, if you don't think the snails/crabs are keeping up with the waste/algae add more, theres no sense in throwing a bunch of critters in your tank that are gonna starve to death once they get your tank clean, as far as acclimation is concerned i think that there is no down side to dripping them as long as you can, the longer you acclimate the better prepared for the conditions you are going to introduce them to, as for the DYI liverock i have no opinion on that because i haven't tryed it yet, i could be wrong but these are just my opinions

[MikeS]

My local fish store told me some weird things today. I went in to buy a couple of turbo snails and maybe some reef safe hermit crabs. I asked about how to properly acclimate the snails to my tank because I had heard they took awhile to adjust. I was told to simply dump them in because the acclimation process is way to stresfull. They went on to tell me that this is best for all salt water fish as well.

BS!!!! This is wrong on so many levels! It is always wise to acclimate the fish to the new tank temperature and water chemistry. Also never ever add LFS water to your tank! This is not new thinking....this is age old marine tank practice. :-D

I was also told I need a min of 30 turbo snails for my 50G tank. At $3.99 a piece that could get pricey..


That all depends on your algae amounts in your tank. I say go with less than you think you'll need. Add too many and you'll quickly exhaust your algae supply and they will starve. In a 50 gal. my opinion is to go with 10-15 turbos.

I have been told as well that making live rock out of Portland cement and crushed coral was a really bad idea because of the amount of copper in it. He said it would kill everything in my tank.

What do you all think about this advice???

I have read posts from lots of people who have had success with artificial live rock...there are quite a few out there that use it...I have heard pH can be an issue, but I have never before heard of copper being a problem with artificial live rock, that's a new one to me....you want to use a low alkalinty type of cement...I can't remember the exact type right off the top of my head...hopefully somebody else will weigh in on this as well.

I'd consider the source of the info in this case....the copper statement is coming form somebody who says you shouldn't acclimate your fish or snails....

I decided to do my 2 hour drip acclimation anyway because it always worked before however I would like to know for the future. They are dripping now.

yep...that's what you want to do....(you can tell them I said so... :-D )

Mike

[cich1]

you beat me to it Zack but i think you are saying the same thing

[MikeS]

All three of us were posting at the same time... :lol:

Mike

[Whiskey]

I have read in diy posts to "cure" the concreate in a fresh water bath until you can leave it in the fresh water for 5 days and it will not rase the ph in the fresh water at all. At that time it is ok to add to your tank. I want to use this stuff for base rock even though it will get the bugs and stuff from my other rock.

Thank-you for all the replys.

I also heard the other day that NO hermet crabs are ok for a reef tank. I have small "reef safe" hermit crabs in my tank will they and the corals be ok together?

Thanks,
Whiskey

[MikeS]

I've had several different species of "reef safe" hermits...blue legs, mexican red legs, ect....the only ones I have had that IME do not bother corals, snails, ect are the scarlet reef hermits. Don't overstock, however, or a shortage of food may cause them to go looking "elsewhere" for dinner... :D

Mike

[icereefer]

I agree with mike, my main tank I use 2 scarlets and 18 nassarius snails, my refugium I have 2 or 3 blue legs a scarlet.
and it sounds like your LPS guy is more of a salesmen then a hobbiest.

[SaltyDawg]

Yeah it seems to me that this guy just wants you to come back and buy more fish. I take about an hour and a half to climatize my critters to the tank.

I have a 54g tank and have 5 turbo snails, 5 blue legged hermits, 1 electric blue hermit, 3 really cool sand sifting snails(not sure what they are) and one really large white and orange sand sifting snail (about 3 1/2 inches long) they keep up with the algae problems in my tank for the most part.
Wayne

[leaffish75]

DIY LR is great. I made about 100lbs of it so far and it looks great. I havent had any problems. Of course every one has their own idea of curing it. It took me 2 days to cure mine and i haven't had a ph problem yet and its been 2 months.

[MikeS]

Hi

Ok I've done a little research on the copper issue...here is what I've come up with....

This quote is from the PCA (Portand Cement Association)...


Portland cement, the basic ingredient of concrete, is a closely controlled chemical combination of calcium, silicon, aluminum, iron and small amounts of other ingredients to which gypsum is added in the final grinding process to regulate the setting time of the concrete. Lime and silica make up about 85% of the mass. Common among the materials used in its manufacture are limestone, shells, and chalk or marl combined with shale, clay, slate or blast furnace slag, silica sand, and iron ore.


No mention of copper as an ingredient. The slag may possibly contain some copper, but I'm unsure.

I also did a search on a few larger forums and found no mention of copper associated with artificial live rock. IMO, I'd say as long as your aggregrate and water used to make the concrete do not contain copper, then it is probably a non-issue, or at worst present in minimal, controllable levels.

Other ingrediants...Iron...iron is necessary for a tank, but excess amounts will fuel algae growth...highly excess amounts could be toxic...

Aluminium...not sure of its effect on reef tanks...I'll check into it....


Mike

[Whiskey]

LIME??????????? I thought this was SUPER toxic to fish.... Everyone says "don't use regular rock becasue it might contain limestone" Am I wrong, or missing something?????

Thanks all for your replys and research. I really can't afford $400 for live rock..... (or anything for that matter)

Thanks,
Whiskey

[MikeS]

LIME??????????? I thought this was SUPER toxic to fish.... Everyone says "don't use regular rock becasue it might contain limestone" Am I wrong, or missing something???

"lime" is the main ingerdient in kalkwasser ( "limewater" ) Lime ( in the form it is in cement) should not harm the tank

Mike

[FishinInTheDark]

Lime is bad in freshwater tanks. It causes pH to rise when it needs to be somewhere close to 7.0. In Marine tanks, high pH is good.

Conni