cyano!

[leaffish75]

first im new to this forum so if i ask something that has been answered just point the way please. Secondly im have a heck of a time with a cyano problem. my nitrates are high so i have done in a weeks time 80k% water change. added caulerpa (until i get something better).
my tank is 90 gallons with a JEBO 180 protein skimmer, I use a pen plax cascade canister filter rated for 200gallon tank. filter meadia is floss and charcoal. 3-5 inch sand bed, current is moderat (i have a spray bar the length of the tank going in all direction).
Fish: 1 long horn cow fish, 1 snow flake eel, 70 nassurius snails. Recently lost a shark and banded snake eel (carpet surfing). Added a blue light for night. lighting is a normal shop metal halide with coral life 50/50 actinc bulbs (2 bulds).

thanks

[Paidbychrist0825]

Teh canister may be the source of your angst. they are nitrate factories. i would try to come away from the canister and get live rock( possibly in a sump) for your filtration. Also watch that calurpa, it like to crash and release nutrients back intop water.

[Condiman]

Paidbychrist0825, is right about the canister filters in order for them to be used properly in a reef aquarium the floss material must be cleaned at least once per week. Live rock is the best way to go. Should be about 1.5 to 2 lbs per gallon.

[leaffish75]

i just switched to a canister from a wetdry. hated the wet dry....ill try cleaning it again.. my LFS uses the same canister on is reef frag and hasnt had a problem. :hmm2:

[MikeS]

I noticed you said your MH is a "normal shop metal halide".....this could also be a part of your problem, it may not have a proper spectrum for aquarium use and could be fueling your cyano growth further.

Your eel went carpet surfing, huh? Bummer :(

Here is an interesting thing about eels I discovered...(snowflake morays used to be one of my favorite tank inhabitants) Try this the next time you have an eel that gets out of your tank. When you find him, put him back into the tank immediately, even if he is all dried out. You may be suprised to find once he soaks for awhile, he sometimes is still alive! Eels seem to be able to sometimes survive being dried out. I have found them dried up like pencils, put them back in the tank, and they come back to life, healthy as ever after a few days....

Mike

[SaltyDawg]

Yeah, I had the same thing with my snowflake eel. I had heard that they can come back so I just dropped him back in the tank. A couple of hours later he was happily sitting under his rock waiting to be fed. They are escape artists and in my opinion not worth having in a tank, because if you cut off all their avenues of escape you are going to severly cut down the ability of your tank to vent off gasses and get good air exchange on the water. I found that I had to keep my water level about 3 inches below the top of the tank, and to me that was unsightly, so back to the store he went.

Maybe it's the season, but my tank has all of a sudden started growing Cyano too. Not sure what that's about. I have added LS so maybe that's the problem.

BTW how long has your tank been up and running?

Wayne

[leaffish75]

it was a bandes snake eel that got out and a shark.... Im thinking of adding just ceramic rings to the canister and some carcoal.
MikeJS, the fixture is a shop light but the bulds are the coral life 50/50 lights. I have read that i dont need a certain lighting level for a FO tank. i will soon be adding LR once i get my home made in ill seed it with some good coraline..... my skimmer is a JEBO 180 (its rated for a 180 gallon tank)

[leaffish75]

oh my nitrates and nitrites read 0 but the cyano is still there.
by the way which is really bad nitrites or nitrates.

[Paidbychrist0825]

nitrites are more toxic. the nitrates need to be in higher concentrations to be dangerous, but havibg 0 in both never hurts. Toxicity ratings: most toxic, ammonia, then nitrites, then nitrates

[Sc4r3d]

go with some rock, lose the can filter, those suck, get some charcoal throw it in a bag and you should be all good.

[MikeS]

The level of light isn't so much the issue as is the spectrum of light produced by "shop light" metal halides. The wrong spectrum can help fuel undesireable algaes and cyano. I'd also check your phosphate levels, phosphate is probably the biggest single contributer to cyano problems.

Mike

[Jimbo]

"its all about the flows, dawg" - Bubb rubb

increase your flow. Look where your cyno problem beginss.. probably somewhere that doesnt get lots of flows, right? shoot a powerhead at it. Cut back feedings, and remove any cyno u see with a baster when it appears. Cyno is alllways present, matter of fact it was the first living organism to use photosynnthesisss... cooll eh? looks ugly. :( controling it is the key.

[leaffish75]

I have a spray bar that runns the whole length of the tank. the cyano grow dead in the middle where there is enought flow.

[Jimbo]

what gph pump is pushing the spray bar?

wet dry's are alot better than canister filter's i.m.o. and from alot of experience.

i think the cyano is coming from your shop hailde. the bulb is not made for aquarium, and i know many people that went that way trying to save a buck and had the same problem

[Jimbo]

cyno is not entirely photosynthetic, it can survive with or without light.

[leaffish75]

Gregoryalln, the fixture is a shop light but the bulbs are for aquariums. they are coral life actic blue and the coral life white light. no im sorry there the Coral life 50/50 suppose to be for reef aquariums. Im just using the metal halide not the bulbs. I had heck with the wet dry filter and a guy who own a lfs uses the cascade canister filter on his seahorse tank with great results.
Jimbo,
the spray bar is hooked up to the canister filter and the canister is rated for 200+ gallon tanks. my tank is only 90 gallons. I just clean the canister and all floss pad about a week ago. I only use carcoal and floss but im about to add some phosphate sponges. In about 3 months i should be switched to a refugium since my bigger fish have died. The refugium is going to be made of a rubbermaid container with a overflow into another container for the return pump.

are you running and aquarium light in the metal halide? you kind of confused me on the last post.

also with the wet dry they should be simple to use. what kind was it, and where did you get it?

[leaffish75]

Okay sorry about that. Its a shop hailde with 2 Coral Life 50/50 (aquarium lights). The wet dry filter was the kind where all you do is set it on a 20 gallon tank, open it up but the bio balls in and the filter pad. My main problem was it wouldnt hold all my pumps. plus they are nitrate factorys (or nitrite can remember) plus the over flow box was loud. I got a non drilled tank for $200 and most around here non drilled are about 300-400 dollars. Im about to go to a refugium with a uv sterilizer. my uncle has a 250 gallon tank and decided not to use the refugium (it cost im with the uv 450 dollars) so im buying it for only $40!!!! but it will be almost a month before i install it.

:hmm2:

leaf fish :evil:

so you have 2 halides then? how big is the tank?, and what do you have for a clean up crew?

[OKBiologist]

Cyanobacteria is a serious problem once it gets out of hand. It is true that it is present in most systems, but it becomes a problem once its food supply becomes more readily available. Cyanobacteria multiplies exponentially, with each cell dividing into two separate cells over a very short period of time if the food supply is there. Do the math :-)

The best way to control it is to do plenty of gravel vacuuming and getting as much of it off of the LR in your tank as you can, all the while doing 25% water changes. Poor water quality is the main culprit, and simply doing water changes will not reduce the level of nitrate concentration on surfaces, just the water column. That's the reason for the double attack: physically removing as much as possible, then a 25% water change. You will have to do it a few times over a week or two.

For those who are braver, there is a professional aquarium trick using over-the-counter antibiotics from your local pharmacy. Make sure to get a water-soluble capsule of erythromycin, or its equivalent. A single dosage will knock out all the cyanobacteria in your tank, but you must keep an eye on nitrite/nitrate levels to stall any effect on your biobed. The correct dosage is about 2mg per liter. Within a week of the dosage, all cyanobacteria will be gone, and you simply add carbon, turn on your skimmer, and do a 50% water change. Works every time.

You decide which one will work for you.

i was actually surprised with a little research of how much stuff eats cyano, blue legged hermits, zebra hermits, scarlett hermitts, cerith snails, netrite sanils, for sand the conch will eat it off the sand, yellow eye tangs, and chevron tangs are just a few of the tangs that eat it, rabbit fish, parrot fish (yes some are reef safe, only a small few eat corals, most eat algae)the flame angel eats it, most angels will nibble at it these are just a few that will eat cyano bacteria. hope that helps

[MikeS]

I'd strongly recommend against using meds to kill the cyano. I've never encountered a bloom of cyano I could not beat by simply starving it of its nutrients. This process takes time and effort, but works.

Medicating the tank will quickly remove the unsightly bloom, but it does litte or nothing to solve the underlying conditions that caused the problem in the first place. Using a wide range antibiotic can in fact worsen the underlying problem by damaging your tank's good bacteria.

Mike

[RamJet]

Just a little something I thought might intrest you:
One of the earliest types of bacteria are the cyanobacteria. Fossil evidence indicates that these bacteria existed approximately 3.3 billion years ago and were the first oxygen producing evolving phototropic organisms. They are responsible for the initial conversion of the earth’s atmosphere from an anoxic (state without oxygen) to an oxic (with oxygen) state. Being the first to carry out oxygenic photosynthesis, they were able to convert carbon dioxide into oxygen playing a major role in oxygenating the atmosphere.

[MikeS]

That is pretty neat....

I knew that they were a very diverse form of bacteria, able to survive in many different environments and tough.....I guess that explains it.....

Mike

i actually dont believe the earth is that old, and i dont believe in darwins theories, even darwin in his last days admitted he was wrong and found god. i believe in god the creator

[OKBiologist]

I only suggest antibiotic treatment as an alternative treatment. For those not comfortable with meds, the best method to get rid of cyano is improving the water quality and removing as much as possible.

[leaffish75]

Gregoryalln,
I have one halide that holds to bulbs, the tank is 90 gallons, clean up crew is 80 nassirus snails, 1 very big margerita snail, some small crabs from a crab trap, sand sifting star fish.

[SaltyDawg]

So from what I am reading Cyno is the cockroach of the Marine Enviornment. :-)
Wayne

nassarius wont touch it, get 50 blue legged hermits, 30 cerith snails, and 2 fighting conch's. if the tank is cycled then get a yellow eyed tang. those will take out the cyano

[leaffish75]

the tank is a year old. I have a eel that has been taking out every one. so im kinda ify about adding any one.

that could be your problem right there

[leaffish75]

what the eel?

the eel eating fish can give the cyano the nutrients it needs to grow. i had the same problem when my white mouth ee' started eating my fish.

[leaffish75]

how is that? i dont under stand the whole nitrate nitrite causing stuff. Thats why i havent tried a reef yet

fish produce waste which gets broken down through the bacteria. the amonia gets turned into nitrite which gets turned into nitrate and is less toxic
now a fish that is a herbivore will have less nutrients in it's waste, than a fish that eats meat
omnivores will have more nutrients and carnivores provide the most. feeding a fish krill and brine dosent really pollute the water, or add alot of nutrients, but if your eel started eating fish then it would, and that would explain why you are having a hard time with cyano

[leaffish75]

okay thanks alot.

leaf