Extremely new questions

[ex0]

Hey, I have a 36"x14"x18" aquarium which I currently keep Tanganyikan cichlids in, Around June or July I am moving these fish to my 6' tank and I would like to try to set up a marine tank with my 36".

I've only kept freshwater fish before and need a lot of help on this and I have quite a few questions.

Please note that I have read many articles but I am still confused on these things.

1. OK, first of all, I've asked at a few LFS if marine tanks are much harder to keep than freshwater, and they all seem to say that its much the same you just need good filtrations and a protien skimmer. From what I've always thought, reef tanks have many parameters that must be kept in check and if they are not exactly right your fish or whatever will die, where as in a freshwater tank the fish are a bit more lenient, this is what has scared me from attempting a marine tank. Am I right?

2. What exactly will I need to buy in order to set up a marine tank? At the moment I believe I need a protein skimmer, more lighting (I only have a single with a 30w globe) of a certain type (what kind of lighting do I need), live rock and sand and marine water test kits (what test kits will I need?).

3. What filtration will be adequate (sp?) for this tank? I am able to set up a 10G sump for it, but if a canister filter will be just as good I'd much rather just buy the cannister filter.

4. When creating the salt water is it a matter of getting tap water, adding some sort of dechlorinator then adding salt until you get the correct parameters?

5. From what I understand you fill the tank with an inch or 2 of sand substrate then use some of this "live rock" or "live sand" to cycle it, can someone please explain what live rock and sand are, and also what is the difference between cured and non-cured live rock. It seems that the cycling is much the same as it would be in a fresh water aquarium, is this correct?


6. What is the weekly (or daily/fortnightly/monthly) maintenance on a marine tank. For my freshwater tanks I do a 25% water change with a gravel vacuum and test the water once a week, is a marine tank the same?

7. What are some recommended fish for a beginner, I'd like to keep some clown fish and I saw a fish called a "mandarin" at the LFS and it looked really cool, although I've read that they are difficult to keep....

Thats about all I can think of, I know its a lot of stupid beginner questions, but I'd like someone to set me straight on this.

Thanks

[Condiman]

I've only kept freshwater fish before and need a lot of help on this and I have quite a few questions.

That is what we are all here for




1. OK, first of all, I've asked at a few LFS if marine tanks are much harder to keep than freshwater, and they all seem to say that its much the same you just need good filtrations and a protien skimmer. From what I've always thought, reef tanks have many parameters that must be kept in check and if they are not exactly right your fish or whatever will die, where as in a freshwater tank the fish are a bit more lenient, this is what has scared me from attempting a marine tank. Am I right?

If you start out with a larger tank your specks will be more stable and the only things you would need to keep in check are the PH 8.0-8.4, ALK, Nitrate, and Nitrite. Also your sality should be around 1.025

2. What exactly will I need to buy in order to set up a marine tank? At the moment I believe I need a protein skimmer, more lighting (I only have a single with a 30w globe) of a certain type (what kind of lighting do I need), live rock and sand and marine water test kits (what test kits will I need?).

Yes you will need a good quality skimmer and better lighting. To deside your lighting you should first deside on what types of corals you would like to keep.



3. What filtration will be adequate (sp?) for this tank? I am able to set up a 10G sump for it, but if a canister filter will be just as good I'd much rather just buy the cannister filter.

Canister filters are not the best for reef tanks because the sponge inside traps deterius and causes higher nitrates but if you were to go to a FO, FOWLR a canister filter would be fine.


4. When creating the salt water is it a matter of getting tap water, adding some sort of dechlorinator then adding salt until you get the correct parameters?

For your water I would highly reccamend getting a RO/DI filter it will take out most all of the contaminents in the water so you will have minimal problems with excess minerals and thing due to water quality

[Condiman]

5. From what I understand you fill the tank with an inch or 2 of sand substrate then use some of this "live rock" or "live sand" to cycle it, can someone please explain what live rock and sand are, and also what is the difference between cured and non-cured live rock. It seems that the cycling is much the same as it would be in a fresh water aquarium, is this correct?


I personally prefer a DSB (Deep Sand Bed) which is usually 4inches or more. With a deeper sandbed it helps with the nitrate problem usually associated with SSB (Shalow Sand Bed) Live Sand is sand that has been in an aquarium long enough to develop helpful bacteria in it. You can start out with regular sand and get a cup or two of Live Sand from a local Saltwater hobbies or even your LFS. Now for Live Rock, What makes it live are the many forms of micro and macroscopic marine life that live on and inside of it. The rock itself is only made up of the calcium carbonate skeletons of long dead corals, or other calcareous organisms. As for uncured Rock is basically rock that has not been in an aquarium long enough to develope helpful bacteria. Usually uncured rock has alot of dead and decaying things on it. The cycling process is about the same in both fresh and Salt you have to wait long enough so there is an effecent amount of helpful bacteria in your system.


6. What is the weekly (or daily/fortnightly/monthly) maintenance on a marine tank. For my freshwater tanks I do a 25% water change with a gravel vacuum and test the water once a week, is a marine tank the same?

My weekly chores include cleaning the glass 2 or 3 times per week, testing my calcium, ph, and alk 2 times a week and toppin off my tank with ro water about 4 times a week ( I need a topoff unit)

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[Darlene]

Am I allowed to jump in and ask a question to one of your answers to ex0's questions? You said that a canister filter is not recommended for a reef aquarium because of the sponge traping deterius and causing high nitrates. Any suggestions if I got into this too quickly and trusted the LFS to answer all my questions. Now my tank is being referred to as a hybrid. Canister filter, LS, LR, polyps, gargonian and invertabrates. Is there something that I can put in to take the place of the sponge to bring down my nitrates?

[Condiman]

Sure ask away Darlene there is nothing that I know of that you can put in place of the sponge. For a reef aquarium all a person really needs is plenty Live Rock cause that will take care of most of the excess nutrients in the aquarium. You can have a canister or a hob as long as you constantly clean the sponge (filter material) weekly. This way you dont have to worry about things building up. I hope I answered your question and didnt confuse you in the process. :D

[Condiman]

I would personally get rid of the canister because you will rarely need to run carbon in a reef aquarium due to the live rock. As long as you keep up with your water changes you should be ok.

[Darlene]

Trust me, it doesn't take much to confuse me. Especially when it come to filters. This may be a real basic question but I just don't understand how live rock can take care of the excess nutritents. When I started all this I thought there were two types of filtration, HOB and filter. And I thought filter was as top of the line as it got. Now I hear about sump and refug...something or other. I don't understand either of those. I've gone and read what I can but it still doesn't make sense. I've seen the set up where there is a tank below with algae and live rock and water is pumped out of the tank above into the tank below and then back up to the main tank. Is that a sump or the other thing. Sorry. I told you I don't understand the filtering of the water. I'm sure once I get a handle on that, some of the other stuff will start falling into place. Do you run your tank without any filters, just live rock? :roll:

[Condiman]

well you see Live Rock and Live sand have bacteria growing on them that feed on ammonia and nitrates that build up in the water. This is why LR is so important. A sump is bacicaly a smaller tank underneith your show aquarium where more live rock is placed. People also like to keep there heaters and other equipment there so it is not obscuring the view with a bunch of equipment in the show tank. A refugium is like a small garden of plants that absorb ammonia and nitrites and nitrates to grow in tern by doing this it takes those things out of the water and makes the aqarium healthier. I run my tank with all live rock and some plants. I rarely run carbon in my aquarium. If you want to see some of my tank go to www.condiman.com and click on the aquarium photos link.

[Darlene]

Hey, first off,congratulations. I went into your web site and I have to admit, I spent more time looking at your family album. Sorry, I love fish, but I REALLY love babies. What's your (okay, your wife's) due date?

Okay, back to fish---so, did I understand you right? Do you run your tank without a sump or a filter or a refugium? I like the idea of getting all of the equipment out of my main tank but how big does the sump have to be? And do people have one or the other? Now that I think back, I think I've looked at pictures where they have had both. But it was a set up where the person drilled a hole in his floor and had all of this stuff in his basement. I don't have that option. I do have a basement but I think my family would frown on it if we had to move out the weight room or the pool table to make room for my aquarium stuff. They aren't fish people at all. They think it's cool that I like them, but that's as far as it goes. I try to get them to go to the LFS with me but they won't take me up on it. But what do you expect from 14, 17 & 19 year old boys. That's why I need my tank, to relieve stress!!! Thanks again for your help.

[Paidbychrist0825]

hey i resemble that remark!!! im 16, and fish are awesome:) lol j/k im a little bit odd for a 16 year old guy. i know how the odd man( or woman) out thing feel. my sisters and parents are about ready to rip my tongue out by the roots because i talk about fish so much:)

[ex0]

Great! this thread generated helpful replys very quickly, all thanks to condiman :D

I still have a few questions though...

First of all is an R/O unit absolutly neccessary, because they seem quite pricey to me (although I havn't looked around that much).

Also, what about using bio balls in my sump? or should I just use live rock?

And do you vacuum gravel/sand in a marine tank like you do in fresh water tanks?

How do you introduce fish into a marine tank, is it the same process as with fresh water?

I had other things to ask but I forgot :?

[Condiman]

First of all is an R/O unit absolutly neccessary, because they seem quite pricey to me (although I havn't looked around that much).

Yes I do think that they are nessicary because they will take out most all the impurities in the water that cause problems with excess algae growth

Also, what about using bio balls in my sump? or should I just use live rock?

I would go with Live Rock in the sump because bioballs cause high nitrates

And do you vacuum gravel/sand in a marine tank like you do in fresh water tanks?

I haven't cleaned my sand that way in a long time because if you have hermits or other sand sifting creatures in your system you really shouldnt need to. Just when you change water you may want to take and blow some water over the LR to clear away some of the deterius that has settled onto the LR.

How do you introduce fish into a marine tank, is it the same process as with fresh water?


With SW I float the bag for about 20 min. Then open the bag and add alittle bit of the tank water then let it sit for about 10 minuits then add alittle more water then wait about another 10 min. I do that about 4 times but when the bag gets full make sure to dump about half. This way the coral or fish can assimilate to the change in salinity and temp slowly.

[Condiman]

Hey, first off,congratulations. I went into your web site and I have to admit, I spent more time looking at your family album. Sorry, I love fish, but I REALLY love babies. What's your (okay, your wife's) due date?

Thanks, I plan to add more photos afterwork today. She is due around May 7th

Okay, back to fish---so, did I understand you right? Do you run your tank without a sump or a filter or a refugium? I like the idea of getting all of the equipment out of my main tank but how big does the sump have to be? And do people have one or the other? Now that I think back, I think I've looked at pictures where they have had both. But it was a set up where the person drilled a hole in his floor and had all of this stuff in his basement. I don't have that option. I do have a basement but I think my family would frown on it if we had to move out the weight room or the pool table to make room for my aquarium stuff. They aren't fish people at all. They think it's cool that I like them, but that's as far as it goes. I try to get them to go to the LFS with me but they won't take me up on it. But what do you expect from 14, 17 & 19 year old boys. That's why I need my tank, to relieve stress!!! Thanks again for your help.

I run my tank with a sump that has about 15 lbs of LR in it. I use a 10 gallon tank for my sump but if you can fit something bigger under yours then go bigger. You can have a sump and a refugium but the sump is the main thing to have. There are HOB refugiums available that seem to work quite well. To run water from the tank to the sump there are overflow boxes available that take water from the tank over the edge and down to the sump.

[Darlene]

Thanks! My fish tank sits on top of a cabinet with doors on the front. If I were to put a sump down below it with live rock, would the rock need much light. Because it wouldn't get it unless I put a light down there with it. You said that people put there other equipment (skimmers, thermostates) in the sump. Would a ten gallon under a 30 gallon do the job?

[Condiman]

The LR dosent need light only time you would to need light on your sump is if you had a section for a refugium in the sump also. A 10 gallon should do the job quite nicely. I will be uploading pics of my sump on to my site today so maybe later you can look and see what i have

[Darlene]

Thanks, I'll be looking for them.

[ex0]

I never ended up turning my tank into a saltwater aquarium, however now I'm on Christmas holidays for a few months and have become interested in it again. I thought I may as well look back at this old thread I started so many months ago.

I think you answered most my questions Condiman, however I havn't asked about which fish to actually put in the tank. I think I'll start off with a fish only and then maybe add coral later if I can handle it wish just fish. I'd like to know what fish are recomended for beginners and what would go in a 36" tank. I need to know which fish will get along together etc.

I really want a manderin, those fish look so cool! Are they ok for a beginner? I heard you have to have the tank running for 6 months or so before you have the proper bacteria for them to eat, is this correct? What other fish will go with mandarins?

Thanks

[Sugar Magnolia]

It's not the bacteria that they eat. they eat pods - copepods and amphipods - and LOTS of them. They really are best suited for a tank that has been running for at least a year with lots of LR and even then it's hit or miss as to how they will fare. Some here have had success with getting their mandarin to eat frozen or flake food, but mine that I purchased not too long ago will only eat live brine that I've enriched with selcon.

[ex0]

Damn, I really like those guys, one of the main reasons I wanna set up a marine tank...

I'm moving house in 6 months, so does that mean when I move I'll have to wait another year after that?

[FishinInTheDark]

If you move carefully and take some precautions, you should save the vast majority of creatures living in the rock. I wouldn't think that would set you back at all.

[ex0]

Ok, thanks FishinIn TheDark

Another question: If all you put in the sump is a refugium and more live rock, is a sump even neccessary? Why not just put more live rock in the main tank?

My main problem stopping me from going saltwater is I need to drill my tank for a sump, if I didn't have to do that it would be a lot easier...

[Sugar Magnolia]

I've been sumpless for two years now and while I would love to have a sump/refugium for my 30 cube, I am limited by space, so sumpless I shall remain until I find one to fit.

It really isn't necessary, but it is a great addition to the tank for extra biological filtration and nutrient export.

[ex0]

I've been sumpless for two years now

What do you use for filtration then?

[cich1]

You don't really need to drill your tank to have a fuge you can always use a hang on back overflow, i'm using 2 different ones right now and don't have any problems with them

[Sugar Magnolia]

[quote=Sugar Magnolia]What do you use for filtration then?
About 45 lbs of LR, an HOB filter to run a carbon/poly pad and a skimmer.