pump heat

[hoppsl]

New to all of this and do not know if it is normal for my Little Giant 4mdqx-sc Pump to be warm/hot to the touch. The water temp is about 82 degrees with no heater. Could the pump be running too hot and if so what pump would be a good replacement. I am setting up a 100 gal swim tank in it is still in the process of cycling.

[Zack]

Hey
internal pumps are know to placew heat in the tank. I would recommend you try to run an external pump. Magdrives can run exteral. So with the pump in the water the temp is 82 degrees, whats the lighting?

[hoppsl]

I thought I was running an external pump. That is the pump is not located in the water. I am using a 36" aqua light. 50/50 I think they call it and it is a total of 96 watts. It does get warm, but not really hot.

[Zack]

Hey
I will ask a mod to move this to equament section, think erik can help better then i can.

[jman785]

hoppsl,

So your pump, isn't in an overflow pumping the water to a sump? Its an external pump, meaning its not sitting in the overflow or sump?

[Macbeth417]

This is a fan cooled magnetic drive pump and it is normal for it to run warm to hot, but between the magnet housing, which prevents the motor from transferring any substantial heat to the water, and the cooling fan, it should not transfer a significant amount of heat to your tank. The heat dispersing off the casing of the pump should be much greater than that reaching the fluid inside, as this is the means by which the pump cools the motor. As for it overworking or malfunctioning, these pumps have couplings that prevent overloading of the motor.

You should be able to hold your hand on the pump for while. It is not likely that this pump is heating your tank, it should only add few degree at most.

Now let us figure out your heat issue.

Please tell me what equipment you have on your tank.

Lights? Skimmer pumps? Do you have lid on it? A canopy, is it open on any side? What is the ambient room temperature? WHY DONT YOU HAVE A HEATER!!!! :shock:
-Erik

:-D

[hoppsl]

Erik,
I do have a heater, I have just unplugged it to attempt to isolate the heat problem. The tank is a 100 gal acrylic, the light is a 96 watts 50/50. Half FLUORESCENT and half ACTINIC. The pump as you know is the Little Giant and it is connected to an Ocean Clear filter. I have covered most of the holes on the top with acrylic however, there is still one medium size opening in the top of the tank. the ambient room temp is between 72 and 78 degrees during a 24 hour period. The tank is not even close to a window or an outside wall. The pump is very hot to the touch, and it does seem to be tranfering heat to the Blue plastice Volute. Any help would be appreciated. When I first posted this, the temp was 82. It is not at 84 degrees.

[hoppsl]

correction to the above post, it is now at 84 degrees
:shock:

[Charles Poole]

The heat from the pump is normal, I would suggest a pump that has the impeller seperated from the magnetic drive. More like a pool or spa pump. This type of pump will have very little effect on your tanks temp.

Also, if the flow coming from the pump is restricted in any way, it will cause the pump to run hotter. Head pressure will increase the load on the pump, increasing the heat as well.

Sorry if you mentioned that already Erik, but I am in a rush and wanted to offer my advice before I go...

[hoppsl]

The Ocean clear canister is running about 5 PSI, therefore, there is a little back pressure. What kind of pump would you recommend for the least amount of heat? My water temp was stable at 78 degrees for about 3 and a half weeks. Then, just since Sunday I started to notice the water temp rising. I have ordered a new pump and it should be here today. I hope that fixes the problem being that these things are not cheap.

[Charles Poole]

If this problem is new, then it is possible that the pump was going bad.

Several cause for it going bad could be :

Age
Blockage of some type
Filter media is clogged ( pressure should go up if gauge is working )
Heaters may be malfunctioning
Ambient room temperature is higher than before

I hope the new pump fixes the problem, but check all plumbing and filter media to be on the safe side.

[hoppsl]

It is a new problem, just within the past 3 to 4 days have I noticed the rising temp. The ambient temp in the house has gone up latley however, the warmest it is getting is about 78 degrees. Could the pump add another 6 degrees to the water temp to make 84?

I think the pumps age does have something to do with it. Although I do not know the exact age, it was showing singns of wear. I have installed the new pump. The new pump had a 1/2 inch exhaust outlet. This to me seemed too small so I swapped Part of the Volute with the Old one with the 1 inch exhaust. The impellers were different sizes however, the cover from the old pump did fit on the new one. The same could not be said for the new cover on the old pump. Anyway, we shall see how that works out. The pump does seem to run quiter and it is making the same pressure in the canister.

[hoppsl]

changed the pump and the temp has continued to rise. it is now at 86 degrees. Can the Little Giant pump raise the temp 6 degrees? I am in need of some advice. Does anyone know of a pump that will not raise the temp at all?

[Telco Guy]

I have covered most of the holes on the top with acrylic however, there is still one medium size opening in the top of the tank.

You should uncover these holes. It is necessary to have good airflow over the surface of the water for gas exchange with the water. You may even want to put a biscuit fan or two to move the air over the top of the water. This will help reduce the temp in the tank as well, although you will need to watch the salinity and replace the evaporated water with filtered fresh water.

I have installed the new pump. The new pump had a 1/2 inch exhaust outlet. This to me seemed too small so I swapped Part of the Volute with the Old one with the 1 inch exhaust.

It's not a good idea to change the outlet to a larger size. This puts more back pressure on the pump and can actually slow down the throughput of the pump. Try putting the original fitting back on with a 1/2 inch return to the tank and see what happens.

[hoppsl]

I have put the pump back the way it was and uncovered the holes. If the temp does not start to change in the next 24 hours then I will try a fan.

[Telco Guy]

What is the size of the return pipe?

Also, the ambient room temp will affect the temp in the tank. I notice that mine generally runs about 4 to 6 degrees over the ambient room temp, but I do hae internal pumps (3 power heads).

[hoppsl]

That is pretty much holding true for My situation. The tank temp is about 6 degrees above the room temp High. Let say the temp is here to stay. 84 degrees is going to be too warm for most fish, correct? what are my options to lower the temperature. I have heard of chillers however, I have also heard they are very expensive. Probably not an option for me right now.

[Telco Guy]

Yes, chillers can be expensive. It depends on the size of tank and how much cooling is needed. The fans can help a lot, but that also depends on the ambient temp and humidity. I would try setting up a few fans to blow air across the top of the tank. Also, do you have a sump? If so, the same goes for this water too. Make sure there is good ventilation and air movement across the water.

[hoppsl]

No I do not have a Sump. I am just running the Little Giant 4-mdq-sc and an ocean clear canister. All of the inlets and outflow are Under the substraight, nothing on the back of the tank. Not sure if that makes any sort of difference. As far as the fans go, are you talking about the kind for computers?? or just any small fan?

[Telco Guy]

Bisuit fans are the same as the ones used in computers. You can usually get them that run on 12v and use a 12v adapter from radio shack or something. I'm actually running one on an old cellphone power adapter. But, any fan will do. The idea is to get the air moving over the tank.

[hoppsl]

Thanks, I really appreciate that help. Like I said, this is all new to me and this forum, so far, has been a great place for info.

[Telco Guy]

>>Here (http://www.panasonic.com/industrial/appliance/appliance_fans_panaflo_axial.htm)<< is one type of fan that is also quiet. I found this in a article on techtv.com about building a quite pc.

[Telco Guy]

We're always glad to help. That's what we are here for. :wink:

[hoppsl]

As per a reccomendation from my local fish store, I put a thermometer in the stand where the water pump and air pump are located and it reads 88 degrees. This seems to be the problem as much of the plumbing passes through here. I am going to install fans in the stand and hopefully that will take care of this problem. Will let you know!

[Charles Poole]

Have you checked to make sure that there is no blockage in the pipes leading to and away from the pump. If the pickup is blocked even a little bit, this can cause the pump to get hot as it is not getting the proper water flow to help cool it down.

I agree with Nick, you should run a fan or two to help not only increase evaporation, but to remove any lingering CO2 that may accumulate at the waters surface. I also agree that removing the covers is another good idea. :)

[hoppsl]

Here is the story now. I have put fans in the hood, I have also added fans in the stand where the pump resides. This has brought the temp from 86 to 80-81 degrees. Is this still too hot? I have looked at chillers, are they loud? Will I notice a difference in my electric bill? What are the general thoughts on lowering the temp 3 degrees? More Fans?????????????????????????? :(

[Telco Guy]

More fans could help, but you won't be able to lower the temp too much below the ambient room temperature.

Yes, a chiller will raise your electric bill depending on how much it has to cool. There are some chillers that are not too loud. You just need to look around.

80-81 degrees is fine as long as it does not fluctuate too much from day to night. You should watch the temp and see if it goes down too much at night if the room temp goes down. If this is true you may want to put the fans on a timer.

[hoppsl]

Thanks Nick,
I have the lights on a timer so I think I might plug the fans into the same one. It seems that the temp drops down from 81 to 78 degrees at night.
Thanks for the help.
Luke

[Charles Poole]

I keep my tank at 81 - 82 'F which is roughly the average temperature of most tropical reefs. There are exceptions to this average, but not for the majority of animals that we keep here in the US... :)

[hoppsl]

I have read many things that tell me I am supposed to keep the temp at about 78 degrees for a fish only tank. Is this true? :? :)

[Charles Poole]

Well, only if your fish come from an area that has an average temperature of 78 'F.

Many authors like to say that because fish are more tolerant of water parameters, that it is acceptable to keep them at those parameters.

If the fish are from the reefs, then they should really be kept at water parameters indicitive of these reefs. Here is an article by Dr. Ronald Shimek on Natural Temperatures and Salinities found on the reefs. Ignore Table III which refers to a calibration chart for hydrometers that has almost no bearing on the hydrometers used in this hobby.

This article is only available through a Google cache at this time, so you want get any pictures. But the pictures are not all that relevant anyways. :)
www.animalnetwork.com/fish2/aqfm/1997/nov/features/1/default.asp] (http://216.239.37.104/search?q=cache:IYGPsKsKRXkJ:What are Natural Reef Salinities and Temperatures…Really…
and Does It Matter?[/color] by Dr. Ronald Shimek

[acropora]

One thing to keep in mind with a F.O. Tank or a reef tank is consistent temperature.Maintaining a tank at 80-81 F is Ok for corals and fish,but it becomes a problem when temps dip down during the night to 77-78F. A good heater with a controller will prevent this.This slightly higher temperature( 81 vs 78 ) will also allow you to keep your tank temperature more consistent during the summer months when tank temps can raise up to 84F or higher without a chiller.I currently run my SPS tank with fish at 80F and I gradually raise it up to 81 in the spring and 82F in the summer. This increase helps avoid problems in the peak months of July and august. As far as your pump you are better off with a non submersible pump. Keep the tank uncovered and fans in your lighting hood are a plus.You should add a sump to your set up. this will increase water circulation and airation and help further with the heat issue and provide an avenue to add a refugium for nitrate reduction.

[acropora]

For some reason the 8 in the 78 above became a smiley. It should read 81 vs 78. LOL

[Macbeth417]

Hey, Acropora good to see you on this forum. I always enjoy your posts over at RF.

-Erik

[Charles Poole]

Anthony,

The smilie issue sometimes comes when there is no space between the text and the (). I edited it for you... :)

Great info. on temperatures. Has to be one of the most accurate listings by a retailer I have seem in quite some time. :)