President

[Pufferfreak]

Who do you think will be president in the 2004 election? Kerry or Bush? I think Kerry will be...

[crazy_reefing]

Kerry

[Condiman]

Kerry

[Charles Poole]

I like Bush....

At least we know where we stand with Bush. Kerry could turn out to be a typical polotician, and change face once elected.

Aside from the Issues with the Iraqi war, he has been a man of his word. Look at Clinton, he swore to take out Alquiada atleast 4 times that I can remember. If he had, the Bush might not have had to retalliate against Terrorists like he did.

Yes, I do feel we where lied to about the reasons for the war in Iraq. But the end result is that we no longer have to have the fear and worry that one day that Insane madman Saddam would also join forces against the US.

Look at how he oppressed his people. He had how many Palaces made of Gold, while his people starved. I do feel that the ends justified the means in this particular case.

God Bless our Troops, and those of the Coalition. May they all return home safely...

[Zack]

I say kerry and i hope for it. Chuck you talk about
Look at how he oppressed his people. He had how many Palaces made of Gold, while his people starved.


Not as extreme but similar to Bush's give the rich mkor and the porr and middle class less. Oh those wonderful tax cuts, how great they are for the rich to make that much richer. :roll:

[Paidbychrist0825]

Bush all the way. I belieive almsot exactly as Chuck. The whole thing in Iraq was worth the downfall of a Crazy lunatic wiht some extra inhabitants in his head. And he had no remorse for the deaths he caused, the lives he destroyed, and the families he devastated. I say stay with what works. last ime we had a democrat in the White House, we had the world laughing at us cause he couldn't keep himself in his own pants.

[Charles Poole]

Tax cuts.... Ha ha ha.

I got 12% more back on my taxes this year. So that is what I saw from his proposed tax cuts. :)

I did my taxes using last years forms as a comparison. Also, I have not met any rich man that got richer from the tax proposals made by Bush.

What other President has not raised taxes? Do you really think that Kerry will do any differently?

[Condiman]

I guess if I think about it some more I dont know really who yet.

http://www.coralforum.com/images/smilies/war.gif

[Paidbychrist0825]

ill only have turned 17 about 3 months before election :( o to have been born in 86

[Zack]

Look at the taxes of my neighbor Bill Gates (yes he lives 2 blocks from me) He gains that same 15% where middle class gets the same. shouldn't it be more of a tax break for the $15,000 a year family of 5 then the multi billionaire family of 4?

[Charles Poole]

Ah yes, but. As a child in a family of 5 myself, I think that everyone needs to understand one thing.

If you live beyond your means, IE. having to many kids without enough money to support them, then who is to blame?

ALso, there is Welfare and Section 8, WIC and many other organizations that the family of 5 would qualify for, while Bill Gates would not. Who do you think pays for the Welfare services?

Bill Gates is living the American Dream. As Americans, we often lose sight of the purpose for which America was founded. The ability to live free. Not be rich or wealthy.

Do you think that Bill Gates worked any less to achieve his financial status? I think he started out in his garage IIRC. You should be proud of those who do well, and strive to do the same. Those that live a financially more comfortable life, have troubles of their own.

Focus on what you can do to make things better, not on what someone else is doing. If you feel that voting for Kerry will help make this world a better place, then please by all means do so. But vote with your heart, not because your neighbor or someone you never met has more than you...

Greed comes in to forms. Those that have and want more, and those that don't have and want to have it. There is no difference really.... :)

That is my opinion. You are free to have your own opinions, and they are your right to have. So please don't think I am trying to force mine upon anyone. I just like to let people know where I stand, so that any opposing opinions can be weighed.

"My mind is never set in 'stone'. The reward for being open minded is wisdom, the reward for being closeminded is confusion......."

[MikeS]

uh-oh politics....here we go.... :D

I'm voting for Bush....Kerry honestly scares me....

Mike

[Charles Poole]

I am not really against Kerry mind you. I just like to stick with what I am familiar with.

If you don't mind my asking, why does Kerry scare you? Besides his big head... :lol:

[MikeS]

Hard to put into exact words....just something about him....I think he's a bit of a lunatic, I think he'll be bad news....

Bush needs more time to finish what he started in the Middle East (which I fully support). I think if Kerry steps in, he'll mess it all up and we'll be in much worse shape than we are now.

Also, I just can't vote for a Democrat. I finally broke down and voted for a democrat for the first time in my life, for Governer here, because he claimed to support state workers( which I am). Well, the first thing he did was freeze our pay, and then gave us a new pay plan that is so messed up and so much worse than the one we had before that I'm not sure if I'll ever see another raise! Worst mistake I ever made....voted for a democrat that claimed to be on my side and he gave me the biggest hit in pay I've ever had....
Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me...
I'm voting for Bush

Mike

[Charles Poole]

:lol: Funny you said lunatic. That is exactly what I said about him to my wife. I said that big head makes Bush look like a Teddy Bear in comparison. :lol:

I also agree that although we may have been misled as to the exact reasoning behind Operation Iraqi Freedom, if it is a choice between my families freedom and Terrorist like Dictators, the choice is not hard to make.

[FishinInTheDark]

MIKE!! My mom was the campaign manager for the goubernatorial candidate that you did not vote for. Shame on you! Actually, I don't believe that he was a really great candidate either, but he was the best we had to work with at the time. Just not good enough to win. . . (And his predecessor didn't exactly make the GOP look that good!)

I have learned the hard way not to voice my political opinions too loudly: I'm incapable of being very diplomatic! But, I must chime in behind President Bush. I believe in what he's done and what he's doing.

CP: Bravo for expressing yourself without being offensiveor divisive. That's not an easy task!

Mike: I agree that Kerry is scary. I get the idea that he is just putting on a temporary facade for us until he's elected. Then who knows. . .

Take care,

Conni

[Zack]

wow, coralforum is not for the Democrats huh LOL :hmm2:

[MikeS]

I don't mind democrats....just not going to vote for them ever again....

This democrat I voted for Gov here claimed to be for the state workers, pro-sportsman (which I am also...love the outdoors) and all kinds of other things.....well, IMO so far he has yet to make good on his claims, and lots of them were outright lies...so the one time I voted for one, it left a pretty bad taste....going to stick to my party ( I register republican) and trust them.....

Sorry Conni......had we both been here you could have warned me.:beatdown:...although I doubt that the particular Republican running in the last election would have been any kinder to us state employees....

Mike

[Charles Poole]

CP: Bravo for expressing yourself without being offensiveor divisive. That's not an easy task!


I find that being a dink is a good way to get people to tune you out. I know I may not always be right, but in the interest of hearing others views, it is easier for me to just be as "diplomatic" as I am able. But if I must speak, then it will be the "truth" as "I" see it..... :)

[pisces]

I'm losing my job of 17 years, my boyfriend is losing his job of 18 years, and in 4 months, he has pounded out the resumes, and still not gotten a job, as there are so many people competing for work(myself included). I say, time for a change. But that is just my opinion. :-D

[pisces]

Also, it is nice to talk about people living beyond their means, and all the programs available for people who are unemployed, but currently(for another 4 months or so until they lay me off or I find another job)I work with the disabled( At less than lower middle class wages). I have people who live in shelters because the "system" is working for them so well.(sorry for the sarcasm). These are not drug addicts, or lazy people. These are folks who have mental illness or mental retardation and can't work a full time job. They get so little money from these governement programs, they can't possibly even rent an apartment. They have to wait for an opening in a halfway house or subsidized housing. Some of them have disabilities that the government has decided are "not good enough" to get them any kind of assistance, even though, anyone who knows them, can see it is obvious that they can't hold down a full time job. This means that they don't even have health insurance. I have one person who needs eye surgery and can't have it, and another one who needs knee surgery and can't have it Their situations have definitely gotten worse these last four years. So that would be my other reason for not voting the same guy in again. I have to hope that anyone else could make their lives, and mine at this point, better. Whew. Guess I felt stronger about that then I thought. Hope I didn't offend.

[Charles Poole]

OK, but in all due fairness, isn't that exactly what Bush's new affordable healthcare plan is supposed to help provide for?

No change can be made overnight, and these are not new issues. THey have been the same people that I see on the corners of Cleveland, holding garbae bags over sewer grates in the winter, just to stay warm.

This problem was her when Bush took office, and will be here forever to one extent or another. It is very unfortunate, and breaks my heart deeply. But not one society has ever been able to eliminate this problem from its midst.

Kerry is focusing a bit to much on what he thinks we want to hear, and not on reality. Reality seems to be that taxes ( however unfair they may seem at times ) must go up. It is the rate at which they climb in comparison to inflation that is most important. Bush would love to say, hey let's drop all the taxes right now.

What do you think the economical result of doing that would be? Personally, I feel this would cause the collapse of our economy and open the door for foreign aggression against a country that can no longer afford to keep its borders safe.

It cost a great deal of money to keep us American safe. We have been kept so safe for so long, that many Americans have forgotten that it was only a short while ago that we fought and died for our own FREEDOM. And believe me when I say that their are enemies of freedom. Psychotic and Tyranical leaders of "terrorist" organizations would like to see our defenses fall.

What we need to do as American's is stop worrying about what we don't have, or what we want. And focus on helping others. America is admitedly one of the most selfish nations in the world. We have more "toys" than most any other country in the world.

How many of us drive fairly new cars, and look out the window at a person who likely has no home or steady source of food? If we all gave a little more to charity, and not our own ambitions, then we could help correct the situations that are not completely our governments problem.

Pisces,

I would like to congratulate you for your efforts on working with people that can't really fend for themselves. That is a quality that I truelly admire. I have spent much of the past few years taking care of my Mother-in-Law, who has a very progressive and degenerating form of MS. This is hard, but as time goes on she has learned her limitatiions. She caused more problems for herself by not allowing herself to see the truth of her condition. She was an RN for 25 years before she lost the ability to walk without falling over from lack of balance. Now she fights to keep what control she has over her limbs. She pushed the issue too far on many occasions and nearly caused herself to become wheelchair bound permanently. Medicare is not the best provider, thank the Lord her husband has good insurance.

I quit my job and moved in with my in-laws for over 9 months to help her get back on track. I missed out on a lot of cool toys that I could no longer afford, but wouldn't trade the experience for anything in this world.

Bush will do what the Senate and Congress allow him to do. That is the limitations of a President. He is not a Dictator or a Monarch, but a sevant of the peoples voice. Which we call Congressman and Senators.

You did not really mention who you favored for the next election. Is your choice based on a candidates particular "views", or on a desire to see a change of some kind?

[pisces]

I think part of my hot headedness(Yes, I can admit that)stems from pure frustration. I work in a state with a govenor who has caused more problems and been self rightious about so many things, and is now in the process of fighting impeachment. I have watched care and services for my clients deteriorate to dangerous levels. And it makes me crazy. I don't do what I do to get rich(trust me, I don't). I make a lot of sacrifices, but that was always okay. I just feel so frustrated by the system now, that I am seriously contemplating getting out of non-profit, and that makes me sad. But to answer your question, I never follow party lines. I vote for who I think can do the best job, and I promise that I will fully examine everyones stand on the issues before I vote. But yes, I do think there are some things that seriously need changing. My boyfriend was a Marine in Desert Storm. I will always support our troops and those who fight for freedom. I'm just not entirely certain why we are fighting THIS fight. I know that atrocities were commited, but things were also pretty bad in Yugoslavia a while back(and still are in the area)and they are bad in China and in many more countires. Why the focus on Iraq, when Korea has a nuclear bomb and has threatened to use it? I personally would like to hear more about what we are doing about Bin Laden. I find that frustrating, and so does my boyfriend, but we will always support whole heartedly the people who are out there fighting. I think he is upset that we are even back in Iraq, and questions why this wasn't finished 13 years ago, but that is a whole other discussion. Bottom line is, there are things about Bush that I don't like, but there are also things about Kerry that I don't like. Truthfully, I don't think either one is fantastic, and I am afraid in the end that I will do what I did last time, and vote for the one that I feel is the lesser of the two evils. That is the best I can do at the moment. Maybe by November, one of them will "dazzle" me. Thanks for listening to my opinion.
On a totally different subject and just to lighten it up, BF and I are tossing around the idea of opening a pet store. We had discussed it before, but with unemployment looming for both of us, we are discussing it again. If we do, I promise we will do our best to be a GOOD LFS, not one that everyone complains about! Which means, I need to study. But hey, it's one way to get a salt water tank!

[Charles Poole]

Well, I can't argue that this should have been finished 13 years ago. Unfortunately our "wussified" leaders during that period thought it better to follow the worlds views, and not go with their own hearts.

I think Bush made a difficult descision to overthrow Saddam's Regime. But since non of us are really aware of what Military intelligence led to this conflict, I feel I must just support the descision as neccessary.

Can't blame the current lead of 3 years for things that happened 13 years ago. I have confidence in the Bush administration, and am a bit scared at the other side of things. Ie. Kerry......

[MikeS]

I served in the US Navy in Desert Storm...so my views on the situation are a bit biased, I'm glad to see we are taking care of "unfinished business" over there. And yes, there are many other problem spots in the world, but you have to start somewhere. I think Bush has made some errors, but on the whole I think he has done a good job over there, and we need to stay the course.

As for the economy, it's not entirely Bush's fault....I think it has alot to do with "market correction" occuring after the economical boom of the mid nintes. The economy is starting to stabilize, but I'm sure there will still be some bumps in the road ahead.

Mike

[pisces]

Please don't get me wrong, I am first generation American, and proud to be so. My Father fought in Korea, my boyfriend fought in Desert Storm. I have more American flags displyed than anyone I know, and when I see someone disrespecting the flag, (and therefore what it stands for) it makes me crazy. I believe in this country and I am proud to be a citizen. And one of the greatest things about it, is that we ARE allowed to have our own opinions and to, at times, disagree with our leaders. And by the same token, to me, this country is like one big family. For example, I can pick on my sister, but heaven help anyone else who does so in my presence! I may not always agree with the elected officials, but I would defend this country to the end! This is my country, the greatest country in the world, and I wouldn't live anywhere else! That said, I hope that I didn't offend or upset anyone with my views. As you can see, they are not set in stone, and I am willing to change them as I learn/understand more.

[Charles Poole]

Don't worry Pisces, Freedom of speach and expression is totally cool.

Not everyone thinks or feels the same about the same subjects....:)

I think that by expressing our views and thoughts out loud, we can all learn a thing or two.

I have 4 sisters, and I know exactly what you mean... :)

I have more respect for people that voice their opinions with zeal, than those that stay quiet in the corner. Reguardless of my position on those views...

Unless you call me a bafoon, I won't take any offense to what you may say....... :) Just read my signature.

:chuggin:

[pisces]

I promise NEVER to call you a bafoon! :lol: Thank you. It was a very good discussion, I think. Always good to hear the views of others. Makes me examine mine closer! :wink:

[leaffish75]

first year to be able to vote. and its gonna be bush...Kerrys tax hikes are worst than bush's. And bush had the nuts to get rid of that idot sadam. If you say it wasnt right for Bush to do that than ask yourself how do you fell about some one who uses nerve gas on their own people. Or you could say Osama shouldnt be killed. (by the way Osama should be tourtured then killed)


leaf :hmm2:

[Paidbychrist0825]

(i agree on the last point fullly) i believ(even though ill have just recently turn 17 when its time to vote) that bush is the man for the job(still).

Skipping ahead to 2012, i think were in TROUBLE. With a huge, monstrous T. i know who is running on dem ticket already. (still praying she wont) Hillary Clinton is running, and i am so afraid of what will hapen if she wins. I am afraid. and that says something.
I am 16, and fairly large( read really macho), and i am tterrified of that woman. i am afraid of what she will do to the already faltering school system( thank God I am cyberschooled). i am afraid fo what she will do to morals( read what morals are still around).
I hope i ahve not offeded any one, personal thought, please dont take offense

[MikeS]

well, the country already survived 8 years of HER leadership already...you know darn well who ran the show during the Bill Clinton era... :lol:

Mike

[Paidbychrist0825]

wel,, i thuink bill was a bit more conservative( omg i am saying something good about a clinton. i need to be verbally abused) than hilary. She is veryum.. nvm. ill get myself banned if i go on that rant

[Zack]

ill get myself banned if i go on that rant


:lol:

You either really like clinto or you hate him. i see him as one of the top presdants this country has ever had. I admire his work in the Middle east with Isreal.

[SaltyDawg]

First off If Hillary runs for Prez it will hopefully be in 2008 not 2012, that will mean President Bush was re-elected. If Kerry wins, Hillary will be out of the picture for too long to run again. If Kerry were to win and NOT pick her as his VP then she could not run in 2008 and if Kerry got re-elected she would have a hard time running against the former Demcratic VP that Kerry picked in the 2012 election.

But that nightmare is not going to happen, the Citizens of this great country are going to vote on the main subject on their minds at the time of the election and that will be the War on Terror.

Don't get me started on the Clinton era!!! :x
Wayne

[Paidbychrist0825]

ok, lets review. i want bush to win in this election. ok, now that puts hilarys next possible time at 2008 ok, that straightens me out. thatnks for piointing out error salty...

[Zack]

My favorite phrase,

" I would vote for a yellow dog over any Republican candidate" :wink:

Zack

[Paidbychrist0825]

i would vote for a purple ape over a clinton.

[Paidbychrist0825]

o yea, clinton did great work over in the east... he sure did leave saddam alive... saving lives in Iraq. the wrong ones.

[cich1]

its a real shame we've been reduced to voting for what we precieve as the less of two evils rather than having a canidate everyone can get behind and say "hes the man". as far as Hilary is concerned imo thats not even an option, the old money and big business that really runs the country is not ready for a women or a black president for that matter yet

[MikeS]

I was in the Navy when Slick Willy took office....so my perspective on him may be a bit different....sometimes I think we were lucky that he didn't get us nuked back to the stone age during his presidency...

I will admit I'm a lot more frightened by Kerry than I was of Clinton....I think Kerry is a lunatic....Bush may not be perfect, but he's definately the lesser of evils IMO...

Mike

[cich1]

i agree on both points :)

i didnt read all the posts but who do you thins bin laden wants to be president? now ask yourself why?

zack your ideas are very flawed. the only thing clinton did was what was in his bank accts best interest. he was a disgrace to the united states. besides we all know bill was just a puppet and who the puppet master really was.

I worked for homeland security, and i have seen things that would bring back the terror of the 9/11 but if bush was to talk of every attack we stopped the american people would be so scared that they would never leave their houses. we all take freedom for granted,
now why is it when ever a country needs help they cry to the u.s. but if we are to defend are selves we are a bully.

here are your choices.by voting for kerry we are going to get alot more taxes, and alot of whacked ideas, but that isnt the problem. right now most every terrorist is over in iraq to fight the u.s. if kerry pulls are troops out then the war will just follow it to are home front where we WILL NOT be able to defend it. we are not safe from terrorist attacks, we are alot better off but nowhere near safe. to be safe we would have to give up a big chunk of are freedom.

I really dont think hillary would win office, but dont be surprised if cheney due to health reasons drops out and rice takes his place for v.p. which means if hillary does run for president rice would be there to challenge her.

now if anyone wants to see how bad democrats can mess something up come to good old portland oregon. multnomah county (portland) waste more money than any other city in the u.s. the democrats run and operate it. we just voted in a 1.25% tax because we dont have enough money for schools so what did they do with it? they gave themselves a 35% raise, hired a new librarian for 175,000 thats 110,000 more than the last librarian, all so we can say we have the highest paid librarian in the world. we gave everyone and extra week off fully paid because it snowed, and the people that did show up got a weeks paid of work off just because they showed up. we hired a supertendant that had hired serveral criminals (excons) and has a bad track record. we are paying her 295,000 plus bonus's. we spend 4,000 per 10 feet to install bicycle lanes so we can be the most bicycle freindliest city in the world (even though it rains more here than every where else) thats just some of it. and GUESS WHAT?????? we dont have money for schools AGAIN!!!!!!!!! we just voted the tax in this year and we already spent all the money for the kids, and are going to cut sports if we dont vote in another tax!!!!!

i could go off all day on democrats, but why, it is just a waste of time. this election i will vote for bush. it wont solve all the problems if he wins but it is alot better than the alternative.

[justmy2cents]

:shock: Wow, this is a touchy subject. I'm for Mr. Bush all the way. Kerry scares this old boy also. I agree that if kerry wins he will pull us out of iraq and out of the war on terror, and then you think 9 11 was bad. Those crazies will be doing that all over the U.S. and the world. As far as "wy we didn't finish this 13 years ago" well lets just say it was an unpopular war.

[cich1]

Kerrys married to the Heinz heiress, where do you suppose his interest lie? in whats best for the little guy? i somehow doubt it

[Charles Poole]

I guess it is up to faith and votes. I can only imagine the horrors that have been avoided without the publics knowledge. Our tax dollars truelly working for us. :)

I bet the next few months will help shed some light on the best candidate for President of the United States. If not, then I will cross my fingers and pray...

[Aquaman]

JUST VOTE FOR ME, YOU KNOW YOU WANNA!!!!

[Zack]

yea, clinton did great work over in the east... he sure did leave saddam alive... saving lives in Iraq. the wrong ones.


Believe that old Bush who did not go and kill Saddam ;)

[Coral Forum Admin]

Hey
This is great, I am very happy to see all of our thoughts get out there, just please remember to not flare.

Have a good day,

CF Staff

[Zack]

. I agree that if kerry wins he will pull us out of iraq and out of the war on terror,

He has said many many times over, he does not thinkwe should leave!!! He says we have to finsih the mess that Bush put us in andwork with the UN more to get it resloved.

[Paidbychrist0825]

ok, now lets look here, kerry wanted to wait for the un, good i dea, nope, the un would have waited as long as possible if we had waited for them, *little buzzer noise* wrong answer folks, if we wouldnt have taken the fight to them, the fight would have continued here. the terrorists would have attacked us purple. no one wopuld have jobs, know why? because the entire country would be rubble.
you dont think bin laden would have called jis good buddy saddam, and say" hey, nuke the US"? Oh, you better believe he would have, or perhaps one of the other nations he has in his back pocket. Wonder why france didnt wat to go in? Sadam had his hands in their treasury!! he was buying all kinds of war making things from them.
Kerry also voted for military pay CUTS. how many people do you think would vote to cut the pay of the people keeping us alive? yes, alive, without our strong military, this country would be radioactive dust.
*steps down from soap box*

[Zack]

you dont think bin laden would have called jis good buddy saddam, and say" hey, nuke the US"?


You must remember that Saddam and Bin Ladan hated eachother, they may have some of the same visions, but one is Suni and the opther is not. They would never call eachother ;)

[Paidbychrist0825]

ok, ill give you that, but like i said, bin laden had his influence on a lot of countries.

[justmy2cents]

You must remember that Saddam and Bin Ladan hated eachother, they may have some of the same visions, but one is Suni and the opther is not. They would never call eachother
_________________

Wrong, Even though they did hate each other, they had a mutual enemy US. They have found proof that there was contact between them in some fashion.

[Zack]

they may have some of the same visions

I said they had same visons and enemy. I am interested where they found ties, are you sure this is not one of Bush's lies again.... :roll:

zack, bush didnt put us in this mess, you need to get the facts straight. they are the ones that started it, did you forget about 9/11? it is amazing how quickly we forget. if we didnt go after them then they would have just hit us again.
the old bush pulled back because he was under pressure from the democrats and all the protestor's. the problem is with democrats is if bush would have finished him off then they would have criticized him, and when he didnt they critized him. if a democrat could make up their mind it would be amazing. they are so into finding fault with republicans that they dont look at their owbn messed up issues. i know alot about security, and clinton should have taken actions along time ago when he was in office. he made mistake after mistake, but yet nobody seems to realise that. maybe if he would have spent more time working on national security and less time lieing under oath we wouldnt have had the attacks. the democrats are big on trying to get stuff classified that suits them, but they seem to want to hide the classified stuff that shows what they screwed up on.

like i said you have 2 choices, war in iraq or war here. so what is it? if bush didnt go in then we would be criticizing him for not. be thankful that we have a president that will stand up for are freedom and not bend over and take it up the butt like some other's would.
and paidbychrist was right, the u.n. had no intentions of helping the u.s. after the attacks. they would have stalled and stalled, and we would have just gotten hit again. i am seriously amazed at how many people just dont get it

zack you are a nice guy, but seriously misled. there were serveral cases of alquida found in iraq, and serveral terrorist training grounds found there. what would you have us do, sit here and twidle are thumbs while they find away to get some kind of gas into the u.s. as far as lies go, clinton told more than anyone here is a taste of the real truth. after sept 11th we picked up 30 terrorist boarding planes from germany to lax, bwi, logan, and u.k. this was after afghanastan. are intellegence picked these guys up before they could do anything. but you never heard of it, because it would cause terror all over the u.s. and people would quit flying again. the president is doing what he can. and sometimes not knowing is better. as far as lieing i would love to hear what you think he lied about, and see the proof to back it up.

[Zack]

Hey
Who is "they" the tons of men and wowman and children who have died, are those the "they" people? Are those the people that funded the small group who caused 9/11? Are the hundreds of young men and womanb form the US the ones who have to pay. And for gosh sake, i hate when people say, "that's the price for freedom."

Really who are the "they" ?

they are the ones that started it

they are the terrorist that did it, thought that they was pretty clear. and yes freedom does come at a price. nobody can take back 9/11 i lost a friend on one of the planes, but since if you want to get into the women and children dieing i got a great article for you to read on saddam hussein. it talks about how his sons saw a little girl at one of thir birthday parties, the little girl was 13, the brother's took the little girl and raped her. the dad was upset so he told people so they came and beat him, they then took the 13 year old girl, and her 9 year old sister and raped both of them in front of the father. they then took the 2 girls to the palace where they were forced to live, they couldnt see the father, and were used in sex slavery. that is just one of the many of thousands of people that were tortured under saddam's rule. I have 6 cousins in the marines, they have all been to iraq, and said that the people do appreciate what we are doing, it is just a small few who make it look bad.
so many people have freedom here, but how many people here would die for freedom?

[Zack]

After much looking around, I found no ties between Saddam and Bin Laden.

Do we need to go from country to country to find every singel terriost, and kill thousdans if not millions on are way, should we???

lol where did you look at? i have seen alot of links with iraq and Al-Qaeda, and we all know Al-Qaeda is tied to bin laden. and yes we do need to go and root out every terrorist. thats like telling a cancer patient that they dont need to remove it all because as long as you get most of it the rest will disappear on it's own.
also we havent killed millions,
how would you have handled it after 9/11? you drive them out of one country and they will moove to another and regroup, you must keep them on the run. do you think with a new president that they will just forget to attack us?

[Zack]

do you think with a new president that they will just forget to attack us?


No i do not. I feel Dipolmatic issues are the best ways with the UN. They may be slow, but that is what they are, a diverse group of countrys. I hope we can find away to root the terroist out, but i do not see why we need to go kill tons of people for it. I hope the FBI and CIA and other federal groups can work togethger and find terroist and prevent futore 9/11.

Where have you found links between them?

working for homeland security i have seen alot of links, i know some are public, but not all. it's not hard to find the terrorist groups, it is just hard to root them out because we have turned are back towards them for so long they have had time to root themselves in and get very established. example is afghan and iraq. if there werent any terrorist in iraq we would have been done along time ago. when we flushed the terrorist out of afghan a majority moved into iraq where saddam said he would give them safe refuge. (that was and actual quote from the news paper that saddam said) you cant go after terrorist with out people getting killed, you are going to usually have alot of dead terrorist, a few dead marines, and a few casualties, i dont know who you are refering to as killing tons of people.

just 3 weeks ago i believe it was pakistan went and killed 300 Al-Qaeda. in that they lost 40 troops i believe and demolished one village. terrorist dont fight fair, they establish themselves in cities, and most of the cities protect them. i still remember how people were celebrating when the towers got hit. it made me sick, and it made me angry. if they want to harbor terrorist then they deserve what they get.

[Zack]

you are going to usually have alot of dead terrorist, a few dead marines, and a few casualties


Come on lets be real ;) Almost 700 dead marines, and the army says ovcer 10,000 dead iraqies citzens and hundred terriost.

this guy is one of bin ladens heads and he is in iraq
http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/04/06/us.zarqawi/
read the whole thing he is and associate of osama bin laden. i found that in a simple search along with other links that talk about over 30 different al-quaeda in iraq.

since we are being real 5,000 people died in the attacks on the trade center. and most of the dead iraqi'a are because the terrorist are also targeting them. please read into this a little more before you post replies.i could argue with you all day, i know there is no changing your mind but i have posted alot of proof and alot of good points. i have answered all your questions. also there is 700 dead marines, that really isnt very many considering all we have done. :roll:
you make a good democrat zack, never stay on the same subject, when proven wrong attack from a different point, but dont admit that your point was ever wrong. when proven wrong change the subject and pretend it was never asked. but hey democrats are never wrong, they never lie either,
one of my favorite quotes"i did not have sexual relations with that woman"

i am not trying to be mean, but i have given you alot of facts and backed up everything i said. your posts are kind of meaningless because i dont know what point you are trying to make. do you think with kerry in office that all these people would be alive? do you know how many of these citizens were killed by terrorists, or were terrorists dressed as citizens? you post stuff with out thinking of all the scenerio's. how would you go after terrorists? i would really like to know that one.

[MikeS]

I think that politics and religion are two subjects we should try to avoid....always turns into a brawl :lol:

And I think that I should be King...I'll take care of this whole mess :lol:

Mike

[Zack]

Yor right Mike. Gregoryalln, This thread was fun :)

if you were king then i would form a terrorist cell and dethrone you so i could be king. there would be nothing you could do because all your people would get mad if you came after me. then once i was king i would kill anyone that disagreed with me.

ohb yeah i would also harvest the entire barrier reef and make and aquarium out the size of ohio so i would have the best reef tank in the world. i would also shoot my neighbor for coming over and taking all my mini put put cheat cards.

[Zack]

mini put put cheat cards



i knew it ;)

lol they werent really cheat cards, i spent hoursfiguring out every bounce and learned how to get hole in ones on every hole. i then wrote it down on cards.

[Zack]

you are not in the lead, cmoney is beating u ;)

yeah i know c-money is my neighbor. i actually got a 20 but it never records my scores. we should be getting 19. look at his profile for tanks he lists mine ;)

[SaltyDawg]

Ok, this thread has gotten heated up since I was last here. Zack I don't know where you get your numbers from but there has not been 700 Marines killed in Iraq. Total US losses may be 700 but there have been less than 150 Marines killed. We are a hard breed to kill.

There is documented proof of Sadam and Bin Ladens partnership. Documents found by Iraqis themselves prove this link. There is actually a contract signed by both parties stating that they will not attack each other as long as they both concentrate on the elimination of all Jewish people around the world and also the distruction of the United States. There have also been documents found at the terrorist training grounds Salman Pak that have 9 of the 19 terrorists names who were on the planes on 9-11-01, they were trained there to take over planes with box cutters. There is also the fusalage of a passanger jet at the facility for just that training purpose. Iraqi's who actually trained thes terrorists have also come forward and told their story. So if there was not any ties between the groups how would these documents come about? It's easy to say it's a Bush Lie, but that's the easy way out. It has been proven that Sadam Hussein was a stickler for documenting everything that went on.

All I ask is for people to open their eyes and make decisions based on their own understanding of events. Don't follow blindly people who make comments without any evidence to back them up. Do the research yourself, and then form your opinion. Too many people these days both Republican and Democratic follow blindly what their parties state.

Mistakes were made by both administrations. Who's to blame for 9-11-01? Bush? Clinton? CIA? FBI? NO! NO! NO! NO! None of these people flew planes into the WTC and Pentagon. The Iraqi trained Al-Qada terrorists that's who. Lets not lose sight of this fact. Too many people have died at the hands of these terrorists and more will die. Hopefully it will be the terrorists.

Wayne

[Xbanx]

Bush will take it.

Kerry scares too many people.

[MikeS]

uh-oh....somebody threw some more wood on the fire :lol:


Bush will take it.

Kerry scares too many people.

Hmm.....I have my doubts...Bush's popularity is at an all time low, as is the general populations' view on the the Iraq situation...

I have a real bad feeling Kerry is going to win...and that scares me...

The Middle East is at a boiling point IMO...even if Iraq didn't have the WMD that fuled our invasion, it's only a matter of time before most of those countries over there do have them. Some experts think that the oil reserves in the Middle East will only last another 20 years or so. Once the oil is gone from the region, what is going to happen then? Oil is really the only thing that keeps any degree of stability over there. Once it is gone, what is going to happen? They are going to fall on eachother like a pack of rabid jackels...and by that time they WILL have WMD's....they will use them on eachother and they will pobably try to use them on us.

Back to Kerry....In order to keep stability in this area of the world, we need a long-term dedicated military presence. I think Kerry will abandon the Middle East in order to please the public. In the short term, this may look good, but without a long term presence I think the reigion will crumble into chaos. If at that time these counties have substantial WMD capibilites, get ready for WWIII....

In short....what we do over there in the next 5-10 years will have an incredible impact on the future...we need to keep a strong military presence over there, and IMO Kerry is not the man to do so...


Mike

[FishinInTheDark]

Well said, Mike.

I have to disagree with you on one point. I don't think Bush's popularity is at an all time low. I think it's a conspiracy by the liberal press. I truly believe that people are smarter than that! (Call me Pollyanna.)

Let me type a quote from Ann Coulter's book Treason:

"Lugubrious over the vast public support in America for attacking Iraq, the media began doing push-polling for the House of Saud. ABC's World News Tonight optimistically reported that support for war was "highly conditional, dropping below 50 percent when tougher questions are asked." Support seemed to decline with such follow-up questions as these:

Suppose it were your daughter being sent to war and she would be horribly raped and maimed and disfigured by Iraqi forces. Do you support going to war NOW?

If it meant calamitous casualties and total humiliation for the U.S., then would you STILL support war?"

Well, of course the poll results would change! Coulter also mentions the media's beloved "man on the street" interviews where they can represent 100% of any opinion they are choosing at the time.

I think it's better than they're telling us. It will all be okay in the end. Do you remember how the press heralded Mondale's victory? They only represent what they wish to be the facts, not what is really happening.

TC,

Conni

[pilotrob]

Kerry - McCain :lol:

[icereefer]

I have read a lot of the pro's and cons of the presidency,on this thread. I have a letter here that a father wrote to his sons, That my Aunt sent me. And I just wanted to share it with you.
you may are may not agree with this mans letter but still I wanted to have all who wanted to read it . Read it.
And myself believe why we need bush to finish or someone like him what should of been done years ago.

icereefer

THE WORLD SITUATION - A LETTER TO MY SONS

This was written by a retired attorney, to his sons, May 19, 2004.

Dear Tom, Kevin, Kirby and Ted,

As your father, I believe I owe it to you to share some thoughts on the
present world situation. We have over the years discussed a lot of
important things, like going to college, jobs and so forth. But this
really takes precedence over any of those discussions. I hope this might
give you a longer term perspective that fewer and fewer of my generation
are left to speak to. To be sure you understand that this is not
politically flavored, I will tell you that since Franklin D. Roosevelt,
who led us through pre and W.W.II (1933 - 1945) up to and including our
present President, I have without exception, supported our presidents on
all matters of international conflict. This would include just naming a
few in addition to President Roosevelt - W.W.II:

President Truman - Korean War 1950; President Kennedy - Bay of Pigs
(1961); President Kennedy - Vietnam (1961); [1] eight presidents (5
Republican & 4 Democrat) during the cold war (1945 - 1991); President
Clinton's strikes on Bosnia (1995) and on Iraq (1998). [2] So be sure
you read this as completely non-political or otherwise you will miss the
point.

Our country is now facing the most serious threat to its existence, as
we know it, that we have faced in your lifetime and mine (which includes
WWII). The deadly seriousness is greatly compounded by the fact that
there are very few of us who think we can possibly lose this war and
even fewer who realize what losing really means.

First, let's examine a few basics:

1. When did the threat to us start?

Many will say September 11th, 2001. The answer as far as the United
States is concerned is 1979, 22 years prior to September 2001, with the
following attacks on us: Iran Embassy Hostages, 1979; Beirut, Lebanon
Embassy 1983; Beirut, Lebanon Marine Barracks 1983; Lockerbie, Scotland
Pan-Am flight to New York 1988; First New York World Trade Center attack
1993; Dhahran, Saudi Arabia Khobar Towers Military complex 1996;
Nairobi, Kenya US Embassy 1998; Dar es Salaam, Tanzania US Embassy 1998;
Aden, Yemen USS Cole 2000; New York World Trade Center 2001; Pentagon
2001. (Note that during the period from 1981 to 2001 there were 7,581
terrorist attacks worldwide).

2. Why were we attacked?

Envy of our position, our success, and our freedoms. The attacks
happened during the administrations of Presidents Carter, Reagan, Bush
1, Clinton and Bush 2. We cannot fault either the Republicans or
Democrats as there were no provocations by any of the presidents or
their immediate predecessors, Presidents Ford or Carter.

4. Who were the attackers?

In each case, the attacks on the US were carried out by Muslims.

5. What is the Muslim population of the World?

25%

6. Isn't the Muslim Religion peaceful?

Hopefully, but that is really not material. There is no doubt that the
predominately Christian population of Germany was peaceful, but under
the dictatorial leadership of Hitler (who was also Christian), that made
no difference. You either went along with the administration or you were
eliminated. There were 5 to 6 million Christians killed by the Nazis for
political reasons (including 7,000 Polish priests).
(<http://www.nazis.testimony.co.uk/7-a.htm>). Thus, almost the same
number of Christians were killed by the Nazis, as the 6 million
holocaust Jews who were killed by them, and we seldom heard of anything
other than the Jewish atrocities. Although Hitler kept the world focused
on the Jews, he had no hesitancy about killing anyone who got in his way
of exterminating the Jews or of taking over the world - German,
Christian or any others. Same with the Muslim terrorists. They focus the
world on the US, but kill all in the way - their own people or the
Spanish, French or anyone else.. The point here is that just like the
peaceful Germans were of no protection to anyone from the Nazis, no
matter how many peaceful Muslims there may be, they are no protection
for us from the terrorist Muslim leaders and what they are fanatically
bent on doing - by their own pronouncements - killing all of us
infidels. I don't blame the peaceful Muslims. What would you do if the
choice was shut up or die?

6. So who are we at war with?

There is no way we can honestly respond that it is anyone other than the
Muslim terrorists. Trying to be politically correct and avoid
verbalizing this conclusion can well be fatal. There is no way to win if
you don't clearly recognize and articulate who you are fighting.

So with that background, now to the two major questions:

1. Can we lose this war?

2. What does losing really mean?

If we are to win, we must clearly answer these two pivotal questions.

We can definitely lose this war, and as anomalous as it may sound, the
major reason we can lose is that so many of us simply do not fathom the
answer to the second question - What does losing mean? It would appear
that a great many of us think that losing the war means hanging our
heads, bringing the troops home and going on about our business, like
post Vietnam. This is as far from the truth as one can get. What losing
really means is:

We would no longer be the premier country in the world. The attacks will
not subside, but rather will steadily increase. Remember, they want us
dead, not just quiet. If they had just wanted us quiet, they would not
have produced an increasing series of attacks against us over the past
18 years. The plan was clearly to terrorist attack us until we were
neutered and submissive to them.

We would of course have no future support from other nations for fear of
reprisals and for the reason that they would see we are impotent and
cannot help them.

They will pick off the other non-Muslim nations, one at a time. It will
be increasingly easier for them. They already hold Spain hostage. It
doesn't matter whether it was right or wrong for Spain to withdraw its
troops from Iraq. Spain did it because the Muslim terrorists bombed
their train and told them to withdraw the troops. Anything else they
want Spain to do, will be done. Spain is finished.

The next will probably be France. Our one hope on France is that they
might see the light and realize that if we don't win, they are finished
too, in that they can't resist the Muslim terrorists without us.
However, it may already be too late for France. France is already 20%
Muslim and fading fast. See the attached article on the French condition
by Tom Segel.

If we lose the war, our production, income, exports and way of life will
all vanish as we know it. After losing, who would trade or deal with us
if they were threatened by the Muslims. If we can't stop the Muslims,
how could anyone else? The Muslims fully know what is riding on this war
and therefore are completely committed to winning at any cost. We better
know it too and be likewise committed to winning at any cost.

Why do I go on at such lengths about the results of losing?

Simple. Until we recognize the costs of losing, we cannot unite and
really put 100% of our thoughts and efforts into winning. And it is
going to take that 100% effort to win.

So, how can we lose the war? Again, the answer is simple. We can lose
the war by imploding. That is, defeating ourselves by refusing to
recognize the enemy and their purpose and really digging in and lending
full support to the war effort. If we are united, there is no way that
we can lose. If we continue to be divided, there is no way that we can
win.

Let me give you a few examples of how we simply don't comprehend the
life and death seriousness of this situation.

- President Bush selects Norman Mineta as Secretary of Transportation.
Although all of the terrorist attacks were committed by Muslim men
between 17 and 40 years of age, Secretary Mineta refuses to allow
profiling. Does that sound like we are taking this thing seriously? This
is war. For the duration we are going to have to give up some of the
civil rights we have become accustomed to. We had better be prepared to
lose some of our civil rights temporarily or we will most certainly lose
all of them permanently. And don't worry that it is a slippery slope. We
gave up plenty of civil rights during WWII and immediately restored them
after the victory and in fact added many more since then. Do I blame
President Bush or President Clinton before him? No, I blame us for
blithely assuming we can maintain all of our Political Correctness and
all of our civil rights during this conflict and have a clean, lawful,
honorable war. None of those words apply to war. Get them out of your
#*&% head.

- Some have gone so far in their criticism of the war and/or the
Administration that it almost seems they would literally like to see us
lose. I hasten to add that this isn't because they are disloyal. It is
because they just don't recognize what losing means. Nevertheless, that
conduct gives the impression to the enemy that we are divided and
weakening, it concerns our friends, and it does great damage to our
cause.

- Of more recent vintage, the uproar fueled by the politicians and media
regarding the treatment of some prisoners of war perhaps exemplifies
best what I am saying. We have recently had an issue involving the
treatment of a few Muslim prisoners of war by a small group of our
military police. These are the type prisoners who just a few months ago
were throwing their own people off buildings, cutting off their hands,
cutting out their tongues and otherwise murdering their own people just
for disagreeing with Saddam Hussein. And just a few years ago these same
type prisoners chemically killed 400,000 of their own people for the
same reason.

They are also the same type enemy fighters who recently were burning
Americans and dragging their charred corpses through the streets of
Iraq. And still more recently the same type enemy that was and is
providing videos to all news sources internationally, of the beheading
of an American prisoner they held. Compare this with some of our press
and politicians who for several days have thought and talked about
nothing else but the "humiliating" of some Muslim prisoners - not
burning them, not dragging their charred corpses through the streets,
not beheading them, but "humiliating" them. Can this be for real? The
politicians and pundits have even talked of impeachment of the Secretary
of Defense. If this doesn't show the complete lack of comprehension and
understanding of the seriousness of the enemy we are fighting, the life
and death struggle we are in and the disastrous results of losing this
war, nothing can. To bring our country to a virtual political standstill
over this prisoner issue makes us look like Nero playing his fiddle as
Rome burned - totally oblivious to what is going on in the real world.
Neither we, nor any other country, can survive this internal strife.
Again I say, this does not mean that some of our politicians or media
people are disloyal. It simply means that they absolutely oblivious to
the magnitude of the situation we are in and into which the Muslim
terrorists have been pushing us for many years. Remember, the Muslim
terrorists stated goal is to kill all infidels. That translates into all
non-Muslims - not just in the United States, but throughout the world.
We are the last bastion of defense.

- We have been criticized for many years as being 'arrogant'. That
charge is valid in at least one respect. We are arrogant in that we
believe that we are so good, powerful and smart, that we can win the
hearts and minds of all those who attack us, and that with both hands
tied behind our back, we can defeat anything bad in the world. We can't.
If we don't recognize this, our nation as we know it will not survive,
and no other free country in the World will survive if we are defeated.
And finally, name any Muslim countries throughout the world that allow
freedom of speech, freedom of thought, freedom of religion, freedom of
the Press, equal rights for anyone - let alone everyone, equal status or
any status for women, or that have been productive in one single way
that contributes to the good of the World. This has been a long way of
saying that we must be united on this war or we will be equated in the
history books to the self-inflicted fall of the Roman Empire. If, that
is, the Muslim leaders will allow history books to be written or read.

If we don't win this war right now, keep a close eye on how the Muslims
take over France in the next 5 years or less. They will continue to
increase the Muslim population of France and continue to encroach little
by little on the established French traditions. The French will be
fighting among themselves over what should or should not be done, which
will continue to weaken them and keep them from any united resolve.
Doesn't that sound eerily familiar?

Democracies don't have their freedoms taken away from them by some
external military force. Instead, they give their freedoms away,
politically correct piece by politically correct piece. And they are
giving those freedoms away to those who have shown, worldwide, that they
abhor freedom and will not apply it to you or even to themselves, once
they are in power. They have universally shown that when they have taken
over, they then start brutally killing each other over who will be the
few who control the masses. Will we ever stop hearing from the
politically correct, about the "peaceful Muslims"?

I close on a hopeful note, by repeating what I said above. If we are
united, there is no way that we can lose. I believe that after the
election, the factions in our country will begin to focus on the
critical situation we are in and will unite to save our country. It is
your future we are talking about. Do whatever you can to preserve it.

Love,

Dad

[nbaker]

uh-oh politics....here we go.... :D

I'm voting for Bush....Kerry honestly scares me....

Mike I'm in total agreement.. I'm not going to say bush is great and all, he has done some things that bother me. But I don't blam him for everything in Iraq... I highly disagree in fighting wars that we have had nothing to do with thought... but well I'm still pissed about 911 and well I won't forget it as so many seem to have. Kerry seems to have a new story every day.. and I'm most definantly not going to vote for that. JMO Oh and Ice... good post

[Zack]

Kerry seems to have a new story every day


What do you mean by that?

[LenandTracy]

Well, I have been in the military for 17 years, and was there in Desert storm, and have been there for this latest go-around. I must say that I fully support Bush and will be voting for him in the fall. I appreciate all of the opinions that have been presented here, and am glad we can all express our views and respect the views of everyone else. Guess that is why I have stayed in for so long.

And Nbaker, as far as everyone forgetting about what happened on 9/11 I don't think you have to worry about that. Just like the attack on Pear Harbor, this attack will never be forgotten. What I am tired of is everything being compared to or taken in the context of what happened on that day.

Bush has my vote upcoming, and I really think that this country that voted him into office to take care of the tough decisions should give him every opportunity to finish what he started.

Len

[nbaker]

Kerry seems to have a new story every day


What do you mean by that? he is for this now, but not for it later.. i'm not goin to go it great detail seeing it's friday evening and well a ziegenbock has my name on it. :lol: i just don't like kerry

[FishinInTheDark]

Thanks Jim! I really enjoyed that letter.

Conni

[chode]

im totally for bush not just because im from texas but i agree with the middle east stuff. my bro is also goin to iraq to fight next month with the army

[icereefer]

Thanks Jim! I really enjoyed that letter.

Conni

ya I thought there were them that would understand what this letter is about that's why I posted it.

[SaltyDawg]

I don't think everyone has forgotten 9/11/01, but I do think they have forgotten how they felt on 9/11/01.

I can honestly say that for the first time since I was 8 years old I cried that night. I didn't have time to think about it during the day because we were busy going real world operations trying to make sure nothing else happened, and I guess it was for the best that I didn't get to think about it until I got home with my family It was horrible and I for one don't want to forget the feeling, but I never want to feel it again.

Who will win the election? I for one will be casting my vote for President Bush. I stand behind him 110% and John Kerry does not vote his concience, he votes just like Clinton did, according to the Polls.

I bet you did not know that President Clinton spent more of OUR money on Polls during the first 6 months of his Presidency than President Regan and President Bush 1 combined. That's not how I want my country run.

Another thing that most people don't know. During the Regan and Bush presidency they commited our troops to 49 military actions over 12 years.

President Clinton commited them to over 70 military actions during his 8 years and yet Republicans are war mongers.

By us attacking Iraq, Libia stopped their Nuke program and if that and removing Sadam from power are the only things that come out of this war then it was worth it. Millions of lives will be saved and the cost in life (although precious) is very minimal.

When an army engages in war it is perfectly acceptable to lose 20% of your troops. That is the number that we expect to lose in a battle. We have lost less than 1/2 % since the operations started. Don't get me wrong, every life is precious, it's just that every one these days seems to be so concerned with a body count and for all intents and purpose our soldiers have done a remarkable job and I for one am very pround of them and to be an American.
Wayne

[chode]

u coodnt have said it better saltydawg. my bro is going to fight in iraq tomorrow.

[Zack]

thought i would just give you a link to this
http://www.tilenut.com/yo/BUSH_record.html

[chode]

thats interesting but i still cant stand kerry and even if bush aint the greatest i beleive hes better than kerry

[nbaker]

a'men chode a'men

[chode]

too bad im not old enough to vote. ill only be 17 in nov.

[Zack]

I bet your ok as TX I am sure will go to Bush :roll:

Looks like Ohio will be big state to win along with FL again.

[nbaker]

Chode,

Your young though and your ready, all to many your age comming to age could careless. You may not be able to vote yet but being ready and listening in on issues will only help you understand where we were at when it comes time to vote. I like to hear young people such as you that are ready and willing.

[chode]

thanks alot. alot of paying attention to all this has to do with my bro going to fight over in iraq so i like to listen on bushes reasons for all his stuff.

[Aquaman]

I don't care if they threaten to take away all the Katchup I still refuse to become a socialist! I like my money ....thanks I'll keep it! I'm not a rep but I'll take Bush anyday over Scary Kerry and the Ketchup Queen.

[nbaker]

I don't care if they threaten to take away all the Katchup I still refuse to become a socialist! I like my money ....thanks I'll keep it! I'm not a rep but I'll take Bush anyday over Scary Kerry and the Ketchup Queen. :lol: :lol: yeah I can eat my freedom fries with out it :lol:

[ssn774]

i know im just a bristle worm but GO BUSH!! woooo

[rbmount]

I'm voting for jobs in the U.S.A. Unless Bush can convince me, Kerry has my vote. And as far as healthcare goes, they both talk the talk, until a number comes up. That was Billary"s big issue,where did it go- it got awful quiet when the grand total came in> :eek2: :eek2:

[FishinInTheDark]

http://www.jibjab.com/default.asp

Click on This Land.

This is slightly off-color, so don't click it if that sort of thing offends you. I'm still chuckling!

Conni

[rbmount]

Cooking with Clinotn is funny as heck too!

[Paidbychrist0825]

tell you the truth, i have lost some respect for bush lately, but hed still have my vote if i could, youknow, cast one. I have been thinking about military service myself lately(dont tell my dad, im the only son) but i dont know what kind of service id wanna go into. not marines( i am man enough to admit it, marines are scary(no offense salty) and i dont,like to scare people). also, i am a bit of a wuss, i dont want some jackass drill sergent trying to"break" me. i know how to listen, get outa my face. plus, youd have to strap me down and shoot me full of sedatives to get clippers near my hair but id love to get dropped in the desert with an m16 and a few hundred thousand rounds of ammo. or into a heavily terrorist infested city and a 50 cal sniper rifle( big boys, cool toys) but alas, war crimes arent good on your resume, and im too young to be a war criminal. ok done now, tear it to bits if you want.

[Zack]

Just thought I would share these 2 bumper sticker i came across,

99% of Republicans give the rest a bad name

Campaign spending: $184,000,000. Having your little brother rig the election for you: Priceless

I thought those were pretty funny :D

[gman0526]

Nice piece of crap speech last night. Now after 4 yrs. of taking care of "daddy's unfinished business" we got great ideas to better everything.

BTW Zack nice bumper stickers.

About the war in Iraq....

Prehaps intel wasnt what it was supose to be. Prehaps Saddam was in cohoots with Al Queda. Prehaps Bush might have had a little bit of an agenda in that there was unfinished buisness.

But the bottom line is, The Gulf Part I ended as a result of several argreements and UN resolutions. For over 10 years Saddam thumbed his collective nose at the UN and the US, and viloated them on a regular basis. Hostilities towards Allied Forces never really ended. We got 83 combat drops in the 2000 tour over there and our Aircraft were shot at, or illuminated by weapons tracking radars in the no fly zone several times a day. Our recent foray there as much as I would have liked to have waited to do wasnt Gulf Wars Part II, it was the begining of the end for an oppresive and dangerous regime. It was and still is, a dirty job that needed to be done, as tragic as it may be. They may not have had weapons of mass destruction, but dont think they wouldnt have tried to get them or bank rolled another groupes efforts to get them!

Bush hasnt been all that I had hoped, but I still think he is as good as the compitition if not a little better. But then again look at the mess he inherited from the "KGB", (Kinder, Gentler Bunch run the place the previous 8 years... ) At least he is consistent and at least I know where I stand. I will gladly support any man that has the fortitute to step up to the plate and take a swing at cold harsh reality, even when doing so is not the most popular or politically sensitive thing to do. Some people are leaders...and some are just followers.

Terrorist dont care if you were for the war or against it, your still a target! If I must fight them to preserve myself and family then I would just as soon do it over there in their country, not mine. Its a tough harsh cold world out there, I would like to think that the last 20 years of my life wasnt all in vain.....I would like to think that when someone treads on the freedoms I have strived for that there will be serious consequenses for those that do. If not then what have we spent the last 200 plus years fighting for?

[FishinInTheDark]

Hear, hear! Expat, thanks for stepping up and dedicating yourself to our freedom! It takes more than a good leader, but dedicated individuals like yourself to make it happen. Thank you for the well spoken post, too.

Trying not to get too excited, but...sometimes I do.

Guess its not really too important about who you support or why. Just hate seeing Bush get blamed for something that needed to be done a long time ago. I kinda blame them(polititians) all to an extent or the other. One for not doing enough and the other for being a little too haste. Guess there is no real winners, either way you veiw it....

[gman0526]

I have a question...if the reason for going to war against the Hussein regime was so noble, or even the fact that this regime was such a big treath to US national security, why is it that we are not making war against N. Korea, Cuba, China, Iran, India or even Saudi Arabia (let's not forget most of the 9-11 hijackers were saudis)?

These are countries that have attempted against US national security too or are just countries run by vicious dictators and still we do nothing or end up buying a crap load of stuff from them.

Why are so many soldiers fighting in Irak when the real enemy Osama Bin Laden is supposedly hiding in Afghanistan? There's almost 3-4 times more troops in Irak than in Afghanistan, he should be the main concern, he's the mastermind behind the worst terrorist attack on US history, not some ungrateful people that after we "liberate" them from the Big Bad Wolf turn around and kill innocent american soldiers.

The issue at hand is PRIORITIES.

What about real issues, like job outsourcing in the US where so many brave americans end up with no jobs after a life of sacrifice and hard work?
What about a real education reform, where every kid has a real opportunity to succed not just those that happen to live in a "good county".
Now after he goes and gives the top 1% tax payers a nice tax cut, our President says that a tax reform is needed for "everybody".

I believe that actions speak louder than words and that old saying "money talks, B.S. walks" has never been more true.

And BTW TY Imaexpat2, SaltyDawg, and all the others in here that are or have been part of our Armed Forces you guys lay it on the line day by day, My kid brother is in the service, my Granpa was in the service, Sgt. Major was his rank, unfortunetly I have a heart condition and couldn't enlist when I wanted to but i know what military life is and really admire you.

You know Gman, I agree with you so much about the real priorities. I really wished instead of bickering over the war, terrorism, weather or not someone served thier country and to what extent that they would both address real issues such as health care, Jobs, outsourcing, educational oppertunities amongst a number of other far more pressing issues. Maybe I could make a real choice instead of a "guess" at whos really better for the job at hand.

Oh there are a whole host of countries that are a threat to one degree or another, there are a lot of people out there that hate us for who we are and what we stand for. I wont deny that for a second. Dipolmacy still works to a reasonable degree in many of those places, in some it does not and in others...we are using them as much as they are using us. China has potential, but like the Russians, you just cant go beat them up. You would definitely see the second coming of christ if you did. While not as technically advanced as us, thats a massive military machine that is still a force to be reconed with. N. Korea probably is crazy enough to get stupid with us but until they do its hard to justify beating up on them, and they would throw a nuke in a heart beat, bank on that one. India could be a threat but it would cost them to dearly to get so cocky. Iran is still a hot bed and if you dont think we aint messing with them from time to time, we are, it just aint on CNN news. Diploymacy is still a option there for the moment. Suadia Arabia, you cant bite the hand that feeds you. Lets face it without thier oil being available we are sucking big time, economically as a country and in the ol pocket book everytime we go to the pump. They are under a considerable amount of diplomatic pressure on several issues but at the same time its a fine line you have to walk unless you want to pay about 5.00 plus a gallon at the pump and deal with rolling black outs. Cuba...Castros days are numbered and he is the "Lone Stranger". Granted he could still get stupid but its doubtful. Catching Osama would be great, but there are dozens of other radicals ready to take his place at the drop of a dime. They too are just as important as he is to stopping terroism or at least keeping it in check. You have to look at all of the players...not just one. Al Sadar is just one such player in a field of many that we had best put a very short leash on before it comes back to huant us. Will we get them all, of course not! But if we can get a few and put an exclaimation point on it the others will get the message as well. Thats about the best we can hope for I think.

Its a little easier to put in perspective once you have been over there on the buisness end of a RPG-7 or AK and delt with others with that attitude. Its easier to see the bigger over all picture. I am not a foriegn policy expert but I think I have a little better veiw of the things that are really at stake in the regards to the war. No matter what angle you look at it from...it aint pretty my friend.

It would be nice if our polititains would spend a little less time playing favorites and a little more time looking out for this countries best intrest. Wasting less time over stupid Stuff would give them a little more time to deal with the more pressing issues that keep getting pushed off to the way side, like the ones you mentioned above.

Maybe one day...

[gman0526]

I'm with you 100%, funny how easy it is for the common folk like you and me to come to an understanding and see things in real perspective and it is so dificult for the people we elect.

Yeah, you would think they would get a clue huh? You know?

As always they both leave a lot to be desired...it just kinda comes down to the lesser of the two evils...

[gman0526]

Amen to that. Kinda like DSB vs. Bare Bottom tanks. :D

P.S. I can hear Mojoreef and MikeJS coming, don't tell them what I just said. 8)

I am going to narc you off for sure now.... :lol:

BTW, Nice letter from dad. Its so much truer than we would all probably like to admit....

Hopefully we will remember the heros who fight for the right to choose. If not, then we all got a lot to lose!

Thanks for posting that icereefer.