Keeping your Reef Tank Cool in the Summer

[Charles Poole]

Hello Everyone,

It's a pleasure to be talking to you.

Ok, but seriously. Does anyone have any DIY Ideas that do not involve relocating the tank, Running a chiller on the tank, and any real degree of carpentry skills. Wood and I do not work well together. :)

With the heat from my lighting, it would be next to a pain in the a** to try and keep my tanks cool without a chiller.

My water is between 81.1 and 81.9 'F all the time. Winter is great, as I can get away with running only one built in fan half the time. During the Summer, with increased humidity and outside temperature, my tanks seem like heat sinks. Takes 2 fans running 24 x 7 to keep my 125 below 83'.

For those who may be able to make use of this information:

tank dimensions -- L72in. x W18in. x H21in.

sump demensions -- L36in. x W18in. x H17in.
(sump level is H11in. during normal operation. )

960 watts of 72in. VHO fluorescent @ 2.5in. above waters surface.

Salinity is 35ppt or 1.026

Normal operating temp. is between 81.1 and 81.9' F

[MikeS]

Hmmm....without relocating the tank or using a chiller, about the only option you have IMO is to increase the amount of airflow over the water surface. Bigger or more fans maybe?

Or you could put an air condidoner in the room with the tank, like one of those window mounted ones that use refridgerant...

Mike

[Charles Poole]

I have read some vague reports of DIY projects that make use of the Geo-Thermal temperature control. Ie. running some piping several feet under ground and allowing heat to dissapate into the ground. I just am a bit leary of using copper piping to do this. I am not sure if heat would transfer through PVC at any worth while rate. :)

[Condiman]

If you get the thin pvc it might work

[MikeS]

you could make a simple heat exchanger....we used them in the brewery to cool hot beer....you could make a fan cooled exchanger (kind of like your car radiator), or a liquid cooled exchanger, using cold tap water, or a resevior filled with rock salt & ice.......you can get steel tubing, like fuel line, that would eliminate any worries about copper.....

MikeS

[Charles Poole]

Hmmm! Trying to avoid using any metal, to reduce the risk of heavy metal impurities leaching into my tank. Sorry, I should have clarified my pickiness earlier.... :)

[Telco Guy]

Well, I know that there are a lot of those underfloor radiant heating systems that you some sort of vinyl or poly tubing, so I would think that there is something out there that you can use that is not Copper or some other metal.

[MikeS]

you could still make a liquid cooled heat exchanger using plastic hosing coiled through a resevior (like an insulated water jug) holding a cooling liquid, like a mix of rock salt, ice, water, rubbing alcohol, ect. The plastic may even have the advantage over metal of not producing excess temperature loss....I bet you could make an exchanger like this for under $50, and I'm sure it would work...I'll draw a simple diagram of the exchanger if you like....I've made them before for homebrewing....

MikeS

[Condiman]

I have herd of someone using a minifridge to kool there tank. I believe they cut a hole in one side then fed tubing into the fridge. Once inside they winded the tubing backand forth to get as much tubing as possible in the fridge. Then a hole on the otherside and there to the tank. I am not sure on how effecent this would be.

[Paidbychrist0825]

it would actually be pretty good, it you didnt hit any of the coolant pipes, and sealed the holes over real well. it might even make your heater kick on every once in a while, depencing upon how low you have the internal thermostat in the fridge set.
ESIT: it might also depend on just how mini your fridge was:)

[rememberme]

Could always put a small bag of ice in the sump...

Complies with the things you don't want to do and its cheap! But not a good idea if your a busy guy! :wink:

How about a PC chilling unit - cheapish and is better than cutting into a mini fridge!

Remember: If you want any more useless ideas, just ask!

[jman785]

Chuck,

First off...running thinwalled PVC pipe in the ground, might be a bad idea...depending how far you have to go...it is very fragil compared to schedule 40 regular. Although I think it'll be sufficient enough for your needs...you could also take a length of poly tube and run it underground back and forth, in long runs throughout the yard. This idea does work well...let me know what you come up with. :banana:

[Telco Guy]

If you do go with the underground piping you will want to make sure it is deep enough. You may want to look up information on how deep the soil in your area has frozen in the past. I seem to remember something about the soil being a fairly constant temperature of 57 deg at about 3 feet, but I could be wrong. But digging a 3 foot deep trench would be a big job. :wink: You will also want to make sure that it is long enough to be able to dissipate the expected heat. How you determine that is a mystery to me though. :?

[MikeS]

All of the above suggestions have pros and cons....

1) Underground Piping

Pro- free cooling power provided by the cool ground

Con-may not work well with PVC thick enough to hold up. You have to tear up your floor to do this?... more or less permanent installation, can't really move it if you have to move your tank for some reason.

2) More fans

Pro- easy and cheap

Con- more evap means more top-offs, more work for you. inconsistant performance due to changes in air temp and humidity.

3) Heat exchanger

Pro- easy and cheap to build, portable, lots of cooling power.

Con- maintenance involved in keeping up with coolant, somewhat bulky, some trial and error time involved in getting flow rate set to provide adequate cooling without overcooling.

4) Mini fridge

Pro- easy to set up

Con- fairly expensive, refridgerated air as a coolant not very effcient.

5) Chiller

Pro- thermostatically controlled chiller is virtually maintenance free, also probably easiest way to maintain constant tank temperature.

Con- expensive!


hmmmm....lots of options, lots of pros and cons......

:D

Mike

[jman785]

You can't dig up your floor, or slab, this job is to be ran outside somehow, and ran in the back yard or something...the ground around here is a constant 68 degree's, year round...as in 3 feet down

[Telco Guy]

1) Underground Piping

Pro- free cooling power provided by the cool ground

Con-may not work well with PVC thick enough to hold up. You have to tear up your floor to do this?... more or less permanent installation, can't really move it if you have to move your tank for some reason.


Well, as I mentioned, there are some types of piping being used in the underfloor heating systems that are flexible and I would imagine have a very good heat transfer.

As for the tearing up of the floor, well, you would probably want to put this pipe underground outside the house somewhere unless you are doing this while building the house. :wink: So you would only need to run piping through the wall to the outside. But you would need to consider the fact that this is a permanent installation and would not easily be able to move the tank to another location in the house. Also, you would need a large enough pump to push the water through the piping. Then you would also need to create some sort of thermostically controlled system to turn the water on and off through this system since it could potentially cool the tank too much.

Unfortunately I think that really the best solution is the chiller that is designed for saltwater tanks because of the ease of use and the reliability. But it is interesting to consider these other options.

[MikeS]

:D I was wondering about having to tear up the floor..... :D

Where my tank is located, if I were to do the underground piping, I'd almost have to tear up the floor...man, the wife would kill me.... :D

Mike

[Charles Poole]

Well, I live in a house with a crawl-space. Hence no cement foundation.

I am a bit of a tunnel rat, so digging the "trench" by hand would be a fairly easy job for me. I think that this is the route I an going to take.

I am going to draw up my design to elliminate the risk of tubing being crushed, but it does rely on my digging deep enough to place the tubing in the water table.

I am going to run 2" PVC with holes drilled in it. Through the PVC I will run the tubing. This should protect the tubing from getting crushed by the weight of the dirt above it, and the water surrounding the tubing should help to increae the heat dissapation.

If you see any problems or errors with this design, please let me know. I won't start construction until late April. I still have to do the research on the average water table depths during our hottest and driest months, to ensure that the tubing is emersed in water at all times.

You guys have all been great. Thanks.... :)

[MikeS]

sounds pretty good....the only concern I might have is that the holes drilled in the PVC may weaken it....I guess that would all depend on how many holes you drilled and how big the holes are. The other possible (and more likely) problem I could see is the PVC filling up with silt eventually, reducing the cooling effect and possibly squeezing the tubing shut....
Overall good idea....definately keep us posted!

Mike

[Charles Poole]

the only concern I might have is that the holes drilled in the PVC may weaken it....I guess that would all depend on how many holes you drilled and how big the holes are. The other possible (and more likely) problem I could see is the PVC filling up with silt eventually, reducing the cooling effect and possibly squeezing the tubing shut.


Very interesting indeed. I would only be drilling 1 hole every foot, and the pipe would be set in a layer of wash gravel. The holes would be on the bottom of the pipe to reduce silt build-up. Which, was an after thought from your suggestion by the way.

Thank you all very much, this may turn out to be a really fun project. I will do a step by step ( pics included ) DIY project. :)

[MikeS]

Hi there

A couple of other things to maybe consider with your revised plan....

In order for the ground water to be an effective coolant inside the PVC pipe, there will have to be a degree of circulation through the pipe. I don't think holes on the bottom alone will allow for enough flow to provide adequate cooling. I think what will happen is the PVC will actually work against you by acting as an insulator from the cooling properties of the ground once the water inside of it reaches a temperature where it is no longer providing a cooling effect. More holes would take care of this problem, but then the silt again becomes a factor.

I believe the best way to get around this is to use someting besides PVC. What you could do is use copper pipe as a sheild instead. You could run a length of copper pipe through the ground, with an inlet and outlet both above the surface. You could then run a much thinner walled plastic tubing through the copper pipe because the pressure of the ground water would no longer be a factor. You could then fill the pipe with water, which would be kept cool by the pipes contact with the surrounding cool earth. I think this would have a much greater cooling effect than the PVC/thicker tubing setup, because the copper pipe is a much better conductor of heat than the PVC, and the thinner inner tubing will allow a more rapid heat transfer to the surrounding coolant. It also eliminates the problems of silting, ground water pressure, ect. You also would not have to place a gravel bed in the trench, just the pipe itself. Obviously, the more pipe you have in the ground, the greater the cooling capacity this setup will provide. Instead of digging one long trench, you can dia shorter, wider one, and switch the pipe back and forth along the bottom. What do you think of this?

Mike

i just have and open back canopy, and run some fans from home depot on it blowing axcross my lights. it makes the water evaporate fast, but keeps it fairly cool

[Charles Poole]

I have been running 2 fans with an open back canopy setup for two years now. Trouble is that here in Ohio, we get fairly humid weather most of the summer. 90'F with 70%+ humidity on the regular. So evaporation is not happening all that fast.

My wife just got me a surprise though. She bought me a chiller. Bought it from a reef tank owner that was forced to get rid of his tank due to a divorce. I do not know all the specs yet, but It comes home with her tomorrow.

Figures huh? Just when I was getting out the shovel and tape measure, she gets a chiller..... :wink:

[Condiman]

wish my wife would do something like that you a lucky man

[Charles Poole]

Yea, I hope she knows how lucky I feel.

She can be a pain in the &$$ some times, but I am no picnic myself. I feel very blessed to have found a woman that I love.... :)

The unit is approx. 3 foot by 2 foot in size. I know nothing about it yet, except that it was hooked up and running up until 3 days ago. It was disconnected when the tank was torn down.

I will take some pics, and post the specs on it when it comes home tonite. :)

[MikeS]

Figures huh? Just when I was getting out the shovel and tape measure, she gets a chiller.....

maybe she figured it would just be safer and cheaper to break down a buy a chiller instead of turning you loose to dig holes in the floor....I'll have to remember that if I ever need a chiller.... :lol:

well....problem solved!

Mike

[Charles Poole]

:lol:

I bet that is exactly what she is thinking..... :)

The above description is wat off. It is a Red Sea 1/3 hp digital temperature controlled unit. demensions are closer to 1ft x 1ft x 1-1/2ft. Thats a good thing. The orginal demesions would have made placement a task in itself.....

[Paidbychrist0825]

are you aware how stinking spoiled you are? your wife'd probly let you get a 500 if you were good for long enough:)

[Charles Poole]

Red Sea 1/3 hp chiller.

It unfortunately did not come with an instruction manual. :(

I do not know the actual flow rating recommended, and I have no idea how to change the settings for temperature control. I am providing a couple pics to show this chiller, any help on programming it would be very appreciated.

http://www.truthbehindlabel.com/albums/crlkeep_TBL_Founder/Red_Sea_Chiller_fullsize.jpg

http://www.truthbehindlabel.com/albums/crlkeep_TBL_Founder/Red_Sea_Chiller_display.jpg

I think it is more love than being spoiled... :)

[MikeS]

I don't know much about chillers....maybe you could contact Red Sea directly and see if they could send you some directions....

http://www.redseafish.com/default.asp

I looked there, I did not see a link to chillers, but I bet if you email them they could hopefully help ya....
good luck with the chiller!

Mike

[Condiman]

You a lucky man congrats

[Charles Poole]

Yea, I sent them an email already, but no response yet.

I think I have it figured out, and a member over at RC has a 1/3 hp chiller from another manufacturer, so he gave me some idea on flow rating. This thing is really cool by the way.

Looks kinda spaceage... :)