Some Beginner Quetions from a beginner.

[saltyfreak]

Alright, I started this SW tank thing as a fun-filled experiance for me. I have had my SW tank set up for a month and have had fish in it for 10 days. Since then I've lost 2 fish, had to treat 3 fish, and all togther lost $120, all in 10 days! Needless to say I got of to a 'live-rocky' start! Last night my prized fish, my Web Burrfish died of an unexplainable reason. A week beofore that my dwarf lionfish died of a bacterial/fungus infection. Today I was left with just 1 Percula clownfish and 1 Yellow Tang. But not for long, I went to PetCo and got an Angelfish and a Brittle Starfish. In a month I'll be getting another Percula, maybe a dottyback or skunkback fish. I'll also be getting 1 or 2 Chocolate Chip Starfish, hermit crabs and Turbo Snails.
I also want to get 1 anemonae for my Clowns. I don't have the right contions right now for one, just very basic lighting, 1,100 gallons being drawn in and shot out of either power filters or pump and hour. What kind of lighting do I need and what kind of flow. (I have a 55 gallon tank.) Also, what other requirements do the anemonaes have? I also want to get some more nice community fish that fill fill out my tank and get along nicely with my present fish. Any ideas? I have 5.5 lbs of LR right now and plan to get some more soon. Thanks,
SW

[Rock Anemone]

Alright, I started this SW tank thing as a fun-filled experiance for me. I have had my SW tank set up for a month and have had fish in it for 10 days. Since then I've lost 2 fish, had to treat 3 fish, and all togther lost $120, all in 10 days! Needless to say I got of to a 'live-rocky' start! Last night my prized fish, my Web Burrfish died of an unexplainable reason. A week beofore that my dwarf lionfish died of a bacterial/fungus infection. Today I was left with just 1 Percula clownfish and 1 Yellow Tang. But not for long, I went to PetCo and got an Angelfish and a Brittle Starfish. In a month I'll be getting another Percula, maybe a dottyback or skunkback fish. I'll also be getting 1 or 2 Chocolate Chip Starfish, hermit crabs and Turbo Snails.
First, slow down! Your tank has only been up for a month and so far you have introduced 5 fish into it as well as a starfish! You need to let your tank cycle and become established. Start off with 1 or 2 hardy fish such as clownfish wait awhile, then slowly start stocking. Also, make sure to buy form a quality local fish store. Petco has been known for not giving the best treatment to their fish, nor advice. You need to sit down and research EACH addition before making a purchase. Buy a quality book (Scott Michael's Marine Fishes is an excellent choice) and make a stocking list. Chocholate Chip Starfish are carnivores and will eat corals. They, as well as other starfish, also require an established aquarium, more then 1 starfish really isn't recommended in a tank such as a 55 gallon.

I also want to get 1 anemonae for my Clowns. I don't have the right contions right now for one, just very basic lighting, 1,100 gallons being drawn in and shot out of either power filters or pump and hour. What kind of lighting do I need and what kind of flow. (I have a 55 gallon tank.) Also, what other requirements do the anemonaes have? I also want to get some more nice community fish that fill fill out my tank and get along nicely with my present fish. Any ideas? I have 5.5 lbs of LR right now and plan to get some more soon. Thanks,
SW
Your tank is way to young for an Anemone. Anemones require established (6 or more months) aquariums. Clownfish don't require them and will do fine if one is not present in the aquarium. Lighting really depends on the type of Anemone. Strong VHO's, PC's, and or MH's are recommended (most requireing MH's such as Carpet Anemones). Water conditions need to be kept in good condition. They don't like strong flow so low/medium would be a good choice. You are going to need more then 5.5 pounds of live rock to start a reef tank and perform biological filtration. You want around 60 pounds. However, this may be a problem now since you have already started stocking the tank. I highly suggest purchasing CURED live rock and adding it to the system slowly.

My best advice to you right now is to slow down, read and research.

Rock Anemone

[saltyfreak]

But I don't want a reef tank. I want just a FO with a little liverock. I don't want a huge wall of live rock taking up all the space in my tank. Alright, I'll wait awhile untill I buy my next fish. I made sure that the fish I bought were in good condition, and they were. Thanks,
SF

[MikeS]

Hi there

Rock's advice is good! You need to slow down a bit, and give your tank time to mature, and time to adjust to new additions on your bioload.

The live rock will be a lot of help if you wish to stock your tank as heavily as you listed, live rock is the best biological filter there is.

Anenomes are difficult to keep, they need a LOT of light and a good mature tank. Best to wait until you have a few more years of experience under your belt before trying to keep them....

MikeJS

[Condiman]

Both Rock and Mike have excellent advice. Just the main thing about this hobby is to take it slow and ask plenty of questions.

[miztahphong]

do you test your water for the ph salinity ammonia and such? this can play a big factor. ;)

[ytsejam02]

I can't say I quite agree with everyone saying No to getting an anemone. I have a very basic Eclipse setup for a 20gal tank, and I got 2 anemones when my tank was about 2 months old. The first was a sebae anemone, which are fairly easy to take care of. The second is a bubble-tip anemone. I've had these now for about 6 months, and both have stayed happy.

The anemone's do require that your water quality is pretty good and stable, so if you test it regularly, make sure you're done with your cycle, and that your water is stable. You really shouldn't add so many things to the tank all at once because you don't know what that will do to your ecosystem. Too much waste in a young tank, and your organisms might not be able to break it down fast. So if you want an anemone anytime soon, make it your only purchase that week, and see how it goes from there.

As for the lighting, I'm not sure of the specs, but my fish/anemones get 12 hours of light/day. I know my lights do cover the entire spectrum, but they really aren't anything fancy.

Also, some perculas might not use the anemone you buy. However, over time they might be happy, so just be patient.

[MikeS]

Hi all....

Anenomes have been available for at least as long as I have been keeping marine tanks (close to 20 years), and yes, I've attempted to keep plenty of them. In my old FO days, I'd go to the LFS, pick up a condy or two for $5-$10 and throw them in my tank under NO flourescent lights. I had good short term success with them, these condy anenomes would live for 6-8 months, maybe even a year if I was lucky, and I'd pat myself on the back for keeping it alive that long. Then I'd just go and replace them when they died.

This never bothered me, until I began to do the research to make the switch from FO to Reef tank keeping. I read numerous articles on anenomes...it seems that in the wild these critters typically live many decades, some species even live centuries! So 1 year in my tank wasn't such a good lifespan after all!

Ok. So now I had my new reef tank. Good lights, good water, ect...time to try anenomes again. Same thing....I lost a few to my powerfilter intake, one to my heater....and one stung a brian coral to death before dying on its own for no apparent reason. I gave them up at that point, deciding both my skill as a reefkeeper and my current tank setup would not allow me to keep them successfully.

I still continue to do research on them, I'd love to keep them again when my tank and my skills are ready. Sure, I could get one to survive in my tank for awhile, but as Chuck here at the forum likes to say..."there is a big difference between just surviving and thriving..."

Here is what my research tells me about anenomes at this point...they require a lot of light, at least as much as most SPS corals and Maxima clams, probably more. Many of them also seem to have pretty specific diet requirements. Water must be high quailty also. The most significant thing I have learned about them both through research and personal experience is this....the real catch to anenomes is that their slow metabolisim and long lifespan can "mask" problems until it is too late. These animals grow slowly, live a long time, and they die slowly. By the time you recognize a problem, it may be too late to do anything about it.

Tank bred anenomes are now starting to become more available, these provide the best hope for the hobbyist for keeping them long term, IMO.


Just my $.02 on anenomes.....ok...I'll get off my soapbox now... :-D

Mike

[Paidbychrist0825]

indeed. anemones need at leat 66 watts per sq. foot( as per chuck) The anemone will split, bud toreproduce. budding is basically just a little piece of the nem balling up, growing tentacles and falling off. splitting is when the nem grows an extra mouth, and splits down the center. They may also spawn, but im not sure.

[ytsejam02]

I completely agree with MikeJS about not knowing if anything is wrong with them until it's too late. The only thing they tend to do is open or close. Although I did have 1 anemone get into a fight with other little anemones that came with my live rock. The tentacles on my anemone started to whither, almost like the end of a cigarette. I just had to get rid of the little anemones that were near it, and now he's happy again. He even has a percula living in it.

Anyway, like I said, I've only had mine for 6 months, so hopefully mine won't die in the next 3-6 months like MikeJS's did. Only time will tell. I think I'd rather have corals anyway. Much more colorful, IMO. :)

[icereefer]

I to have anemones RBTA,and for me to keep mine happy it's a constant water control, anemones are by far not easy, and yes it is easy to keep them happy up to 6 or 8 month's but ,like mike said these anemones live for hundreds of years.
mikejs I've been following your posts,your awsome on your posting, nice to see people out helping fellow reefers as you do.and it looks like you've been doing a lot of homework, good for you. you sound like a good accete to this hobby :)

[ytsejam02]

Ok, what I don't understand is, what changes after 6-12 months that your anemones are dying? Something has to be. I don't suppose it's like plants where they outgrow their "pot", or aquarium?

I've had a harder time with keeping fish alive. My water quality has always been good. I do my water changes when needed, I buy distilled water all the time. I don't even know why some of the fish I've had, die.

At any rate, if someone could give me some reasons as to why their anemones are dying, I'd love to know. It would give me something to think about to keep them alive seeing they have been in my tank for about 6 months now...

Thanx!
-Jay

[MikeS]

The short answer to that question is "I don't know".

I'll expand a bit on my origional post-

The anenomes in my tank didn't just suddenly "die" one day (except for the ones that got too close to the heater, got caught in powerhead intakes, ect. )...the process was more like a steady decline. The anenomes "looked" progressively worse over a period of months. The color would pale, they would not open as much, they spent more and more time shrivled up, until they eventually died.

I'm not sure of the exact reason for this. My research and talking with others in the hobby leads me to believe it was a number of reasons. One reason I think is light. Even my reasonably powerful PCF/VHO combo over my reef was not providing them with enough light for long term health. The photosythetic algae in them probably died off slowly, essentially slowly starving the animal. Another factor is water quality. I try to maintain the best I can, perhaps there was too much of one thing and not enough of another in the water to keep these sensitive animals healthy. There is also some speculation out there among reefkeepers that perhaps anenomes have something particular about their diet that we are either unaware of or unable to meet in a reef tank. So the cause for my anenomes decline could be any of the above reasons, or a combination of them.

One thing I did notice about every single anenome I have ever attempted to keep...about a month or two before they die, they begin to move about the tank a lot more. Even if they had been in the same spot for months. My theory for this behavior is this...I think the animal was dying, and began looking for a better place in the tank to get the light it needed, water chemistry, missing diet item...ect...

Mike

[ytsejam02]

Thanx for the info Mike. Mine move around, but it appears to be very rare, like once every 2 months or more. Although my bubble-tip did spend a few days closed recently after having moved to a new spot, but now he's about as open as he can possibly get. Interestingly, he's higher up on the rocks, maybe an attempt to get close to the lights?

I suppose the lights could be an issue at some point. I hear the bulbs should be changed every 3-6 months. The lights on my tank are relatively inexpensive so that's one way to go. Plus the tank has been running for about 7 months, so it might be overdue.

Occasionally I feed mine some freeze dried plankton, and each has a clownfish that is very protective of it, so hopefully they're providing food in some form or another as well.

At any rate, thanx again. I'll let you know how I make out.
-Jay

[MikeS]

the amount of time between bulb changes depends alot on they type of bulb, and on the type of ballast running it. Cooling fans will help increase bulb life a bit also. The bulbs shift their spectrum over time due to heat in the bulb more than anything else. If your ballast runs your bulbs at a cooler temerature ( like an Icecap ballast, designed to run bulbs with less heat ) you will get more life out of them. I change my bulbs (both VHO and PCF) about every 12 months. 3-6 months seems a little tight to me...JMO

Mike

[ytsejam02]

Thanx Mike. The hardware for my tank, along with some LR, were generously donated to me by people who were no longer using it, so I'm not sure how long the lights have been used. So I probably should have done it by now. At any rate, I'll change them, and ask my LFS how long I should wait between changes.

Thanx for your advice!
-Jay

[MikeS]

the LFS will probably give you a short estimate, just to sell you lights more frequently....can you give us some info about the bulbs and ballast (ie brand, manufacturer, ect....)

Mike

[ytsejam02]

They are 18" Coralife's, but I'm not worried about my LFS giving me a short estimate. It's probably not worth the effort to try to explain why I trust him so much, but I welcome anyone's advice on how long I should wait to change the lights.

-Jay

[MikeS]

Are these NO (normal output) flourescent bulbs? If so, are they replacements in a hood that originally came with the tank?

Mike

[ytsejam02]

They are NO flourescent bulbs. Since receiving the tank+hood from my friend, I have not replaced them, and can only assume they were in there from when they used the tank.

At any rate, my LFS told me that the timing depends on whether or not you have critters that are very light sensitive, and the type of bulb. For my Coralife 18" NO flourescent bulbs, he recommended 8-12 months. When I told him I had a Sebae anemone, he said I have to be very careful, especially considering I only get 1.5 W/gal.

At any rate, I changed them, the Sebae has been fine ever since I got him. Hopefully that will continue.

Does anything my LFS said sound questionable?
Thanx!
-Jay

[MikeS]

All in all decent advice, but I'd say your anenome needs alot more light than the NO's can give it.

Mike