white slimey stuff question.......again

[microreefguy]

anyone know what white slimey, mucousy, loogie looking stuff in my filter, glass and rocks might be :?:

[microreefguy]

so have you guys read my posts on slimey white stuff?

[paulsreef]

A picture would be very helpful. Can you post one?

[paulsreef]

Ok, all innuendo aside, if you can post a picture of the substance it would make IDing the stuff much easier. If its algal in nature, I'd say look at standard stuff like overfeeding and such and try to starve it out. I've had many odd growths in my system, but nothing that I would ever describe as a "loogie." :-) Without a positive ID, its hard to say... but have you tried all the usual stuff like a series of water changes, running carbon, removing it by hand?

[microreefguy]

unfortunately, my digital camera has been sent away for three weeks for a thourough cleaning. this morning there was a thick white film covering the top of my water. after cleaning it off my glass yesterday morning, it's back. i skimmed it off the water with a sponge. my biowheel stopped again for the second time in three days. i'm also battling red slime and i'm definately losing. i think my tank is on the verge of crashing on me. it looks like it's going to get smothered in this stuff. i placed a post on three other sites and no one seems to know what it is. :( . i'm out of ideas.

[paulsreef]

Tell me a little bit more about the slimy stuff. Does it have any particular odor that you could describe? Is it uniformly white, or does it form clumps. Does it have bubbles in it? What are your water parameters? Without a proper ID, you could try a few things to try to improve overall water quality and see if that has any effect. First I would say clean out that filter. True, you'll end up sacrificing some of the beneficial bacteria, but I've never been a fan of bio wheels in reef aquariums... they tend to become nitrate factories. Next do some water changes. Lastly start running some carbon in a bag or in that filter (once you clean it out) or some run some Chemi-pure. I'm not a big fan of over chemically filtering a tank, but in this case I think it would be worth it. Chemi-Pure would certainly help you with the cyanobacteria (Red Slime). Its possible that this white stuff could be a form of bacteria, although I'll need to do some research to see if that is possible. Don't waste time though, do those three things and let us know what your water conditions are. Do you have good test kits to get an idea of where you are now?

Paul

[paulsreef]

Ok, I think I may have found some info for you. Check this link first

http://www.microbeworld.org/htm/aboutmicro/microbes/types/protista.htm

Herein it states:
"Slime molds are made up of individual cells that form an aggregate mass. In their visible, aggregate states, they look like blobs, gooey or foamy masses, spilled jelly, or even dog vomit. They may be bright orange, red, yellow, brown, black, blue, or white."

I would say, and I could be wrong, to treat this as you would your cyano bacteria. Its feeding on something... reduce your feeding and try a chemical filtration method. As I stated earlier, Chemi-Pure should produce some noticable improvements with your Red Slime (cyanobacteria) and would most likely help you out with this unknown white slime.

Let me know how (or if this works). If not, we'll formulate a "Plan B"

Paul

[microreefguy]

there is no odor to it. in my filter, it's a blob that grew so thick, that it stopped my bio wheel form turning. (i heard biowheels were just a bonus in keeping bacteria for aeration). on my glass, it's a thin uniform film, i found some on my water surface which i skimmed off with a sponge and broke the rest up. i cleand my filter and my water pump which was clogged with it. it was clumped in there. i did a water change. i put carbon in the filter. i bought a splitter for the pump so there is a bit more circulation. i only feed the smallest bit of brine that i could for my PJ Card. thanks for the web site, it was helpful. one of my LFS told me that the bacter vital (by Marc Weiss Company) i was using, which i don't reccomend to anyone because it gives false positives on ammonia, nitrites and nitrates and there is no way to know if these levels actually do rise so i don't know what my water is doing, may have caused an excess growth of bacteria. this bacteria has found it's home in my filter and glass. so there may be in fact, off the chart levels of nitrites and nitrates which i got on my tests, which i don't know for sure because of the bacter vital. i called the company to find out if there is a test kit i could possibly buy, and they told me not one that i could afford. so, i decided i'm going to treat this as a bacteria, per paulsreef suggestion, i did what you said and i will continue with weekly water changes, stop using bacter crap, and hope for the best. pH is low at 7.8 due to red slime remover by Ultralife (didn't quite work for me), temp is at 74-75, salinity is at 1.025.

[Charles Poole]

Could also be a type of sponge or tunicate. Pics do help though... :)

[microreefguy]

yes, i changed the water, cut back on lighting, and put in carbon. i cleaned it all out of my filter and glass. this morning at 9:35 am, it was clean. i came home from work at 12:30 am and this stuff is covering every inch of my glass. :shock: WTF?? it's so thick that i can barely see in my tank. it's a white film. i can scrape it off with my finger. i can write my name in it. my PJ doesn't look so good either. he's just bobbing up and down on the sand. one of my snails died yesterday. one of my hermits is using his shell now. (he's been standing over his old shell for like 36 hours straight, what's up with that??). it looks like haze. i can't post a pic cause my camera is still away for cleaning. i'm afriad to see what it will look like in the morning. :(

[microreefguy]

it's getting worse....it grew back all over my glass....completely covering every single inch in 15 hours.

[H3R0]

thats massive

[microreefguy]

yeah.....i don't know what to do.

[paulsreef]

If you keep removing it by han d, doing water changes and chemically attacking it with something like Chemi-Pure eventually you will win the battle. I would suggest quarantining any animals you have in the tank so that you don't stress them out and kill them. That way you can also stop feeding the main tank and really work on starving out this bacterial bloom.

[microreefguy]

unfortunately, i can't afford another tank at this time. i did clean it all off last night. this morning there was hardly anything on my glass. just a few spots here and there. which i was really, really happy about, but my water is waaaaay cloudy. cloudier than i've ever seen it. whitish grey color. which is also a sign of a bacterial bloom. right? if so, then i just keep doing what i'm doing and eventually my water will clear, right?

[paulsreef]

You're correct... just keep at it and you'll eventually outlast the stuff. I had a big battle with bacterial blooms in one tank that I set up. Ironically I also gave the Bacter Vital a try during that setup process. I have no idea if it was the products fault, but if I use anything now to supplement bacteria during startup I just use a little cycle. Just keep doing water changes and seriously think about running some chemical filtration to help you clear the water. You can use carbon, Renew by SeaChem, Chemi-pure, etc. Just hang in there, you'll win this battle.

[microreefguy]

i was actually going out the door to go get some. i was wondering if i should put amquel plus to destroy nitrites, nitrates, and ammonia. or is that a bad idea. could this be the reason why my snails are dying?

[paulsreef]

I wouldn't bother unless Amonnia is at dangerously high levels. If it is, you're tank's going through another cycle and you've got bigger problems. Just keep up with the water changes and run a bit of chemical filtration. Beyond that all you need is patience. :-)

[microreefguy]

i put carbon and put in phosphate eliminator stuff (for the red slime). my other snail is dying and some of my polyps are dying as well. the yellow ones have turned really dark and shrunk, my mushrooms are closing themselves up as well. my yellow star polyp is turning brown. how dicouraging. my calcium levels are at 600. so i know that's not the problem. maybe i am going through another cycle.

[Paidbychrist0825]

that WAY too high
thwey should be around 380-420.

[paulsreef]

What brand of test kit are you using? If your calcium is that high that would certainly explain why your water is cloudy. At levels that high calcium begins to precipitate out of solution and clumps in the water column. Levels that high often result in the infamous "snow storm." How did they get that elevated? Have you been dosing something regularly without knowing how much Ca your tank is actually using? What are your alkalinity and pH at?

I just realized we don't know much about your tank. What's the volume? How much live rock and sand? Are you using anything else for filtration besides the hang on filter? How old is the tank?

A healthy water change or two couldn't hurt. Getting your parameters in line would also be a good goal to set for your tank. Sounds like you have multiple problems occurring at once.

[microreefguy]

actually, i just bought a test kit for calcium today. it's from red sea. i haven't put any calcium in there for two weeks. i always dose 1 drop a gallon once a week. i've been doing that since the first week of setup and haven't once had cloudy water. my pH dropped to a low 7.8 due to red slime remover by ultralife.

my tank is a 3.5 gallon eclipse system. wet dry filter with carbon, phosphate remover stuff, and biowheel. i have a coralife minimight light fixture with a super compact daylight and actinic blue bulb. both 9 watts. i also have a rio 50 water pump. it's a four month old tank. i have 5 lbs of live rock and 5 lbs of live sand. according to one of my LFS, my tank was cycled three months ago. i brought them water samples every week and they just told me what was going on. i used iodine, liquid gold plus, calcium, natu vite, and lipo. i used bacter vital to speed cycle process. i have a dying snail, two blue legged hermits, and one PJ Card. there are 9 different soft corals in my tank. i've seen copepods on my glass and amphipods that hitched on a coral.

i tested the water every week after they told me i was good to go. i used aquarium systems test kit. i was at 0 ammonia, nitrates, and nitrites for two months after i stopped bringing them water samples and my pH was always at 8.2. then i started getting red slime and that's when all my problems were starting. one after another. i do weekly water changes with bio-sea salt and i only use RO water. my temp is at a constant 74-75 degrees.

i used kick-ich a month ago when i bought a royal gramma to treat it, but he didn't make it. i did stop water changes during treatment. i lost a gold coral banded shrimp, he lost his legs, claws, and antennas when he molted. i have no idea why that happened. i had him since day three of first setting up my tank. too soon i know. my LFS made a mistake and told me i was fine. he died three weeks ago. i don't go to them anymore.

besides that, evrything was running fine, and then all of a sudden everything is now going down hill. :?

[paulsreef]

Well, in a system that small water changes are a must. Systems that small are definitely tough precisely for the reason that one small thing can cascade into a dozen other problems. Small tanks are not as forgiving as larger tanks. At this point I would say definitely get the dying animals out, they'll just foul your water and you don't have a lot to work with at this point. Continue regular water changes until everything evens out. Don't just add anything to your tank unless you're sure you're difficient in it. With soft corals, you may very well just need to do water changes to replenish any elements they take up in their growth. Obviously they're not using a ton of calcium, so don't dose that. I know the LFS you've been going to, I can tell by what they're telling you to use. In a system that small I would stop using all of it and just do water changes until things settle down, which they will. As you've learned, some LFS's just want to sell you stuff. :roll:

[microreefguy]

you know the one i was going to?

[paulsreef]

I'm guessing since you're in West Palm Beach and you're using a number of Natureef products (which I love by the way when used correctly), that you're most likely gonig to one of the LFS's up that way that's notorious for getting people to buy and use stuff they don't need.

[microreefguy]

there are three other LFS's up here that reccomend Natureef products as well. so i know i can trust that. the difference is exactly what you said about selling me stuff i don't need. i found out today that my weekly water changes would be enough to replenish everything in my tank and i will not need any additives at all. that's a lot of money.

it's too bad because i was going to send them business from a couple of my friends. i sent them them elsewhere instead.

[Charles Poole]

Less is more. Atleast that is my motto. If you can't prove it needs to be dosed, then water changes will usually replace it. Otherwise, leave it alone in my opinion.

[Telco Guy]

K.I.S.S. Keep It Simple, Stupid!

A good motto to go by. Or here's another:

If it's not broken, don't fix it!

[microreefguy]

more bad news, my pj card died and almost all my yellow polyps are dead as well. i took a reading and all tests are way off chart. i did however find a hermit crab that i didn't know i had. he's not a blue legged like my other ones. this tank is done for. there is really nothing i can do now to save the inhabitants is there?

[paulsreef]

Ok, now its a critical situation. Do you know anyone that has a spare tank (preferably a quarantine tank) that you can move your remaining charges into? Getting the rest of your critters out of the tank now would be the best idea. Once you do that, you can address the water quality issues that you're having.

[paulsreef]

By the way, what are your readings (what constitutes "way off the chart")? Have you done water changes? I would suggest getting any remaining animals out, doing a 100% water change and thoroughly cleaning (if not replacing) the hang on filter. Either way it sounds like you may be cycling the tank again whether you like it or not.

[Charles Poole]

Do not fret to much. Most of us have come to this pass before. It is moments like these that trully define a reefer from a saltwater tank hobbyist... I second Paul's advice.

[microreefguy]

no one i know uses a quartine tank and none of them have a spare tank to offer me. they don't want any of my inhabitants in their tank cause they say they are bad luck. buttholes. :x

water looks a little clearer, but it's still cloudy. more good news, red slime algea looks like it's going away. more bad news, brown algea is starting to grow. this new hermit that i didn't know i had is eating it. he has white legs (i think, water too cloudy to tell). don't know what kind he is. i used amquel plus. it took care of everything, but this morning all my readings are off the chart agiain. waaaay off.

[Charles Poole]

Please post your readings so others and myself can better narrow down the possibilites.

[microreefguy]

ammonia is at 1.0 ppm, nitrates are over 140 ppm, nitrites are over 4 ppm, pH is still low at 7.6, i use aquarium pharmaceutical test kit. alkalinity is high at 13.3 dKh according to natureef test kit and calcium still at 600 according to red sea test kit. i haven't used any additives in over three weeks and i have done weekly water changes. water is now crystal clear since yesterday. red slime is 90% gone and brown algea and the clear white stuff are still there. most of the yellow polyps have died, other corals seem to be hanging in there. crabs acting normal. hair algea growing as well.

[Charles Poole]

Holy cow!!!!!
The only reading that you gave that is even marginally "OK" is alkalinity.

Ammonia - 0 ppm
nitrite - 0 ppm
Nitrate - 20 ppm max
calcium - 450 max
Alkalinity - 12 dKh max
pH - 8.0 minimum
Specific Gravity 1.024 - 1.026

Either you severly overfed this aquarium, stocked it to rapidly before cycle had completed, or your need new test kits.........

Crlkeep's Marine Aquarium Chemistry Breakdown for the Hobbyist (http://coralforum.com/cms_view_article.php?aid=4&sid=2d1a2b9a0aa9095474a15ea9609db304)

I put a lot of references that are available online at the end, please check them out as well. :)

For now, do a 50% water change using RO/DI or distilled water.

[microreefguy]

here is a pic of the white slime....don't know if i'm doing this right.

[microreefguy]

here is another pic...it's on my pump. it's staring to grow everywhere again. all out of control.

[Telco Guy]

:eek2: I think I speak for all when I say Eeeeeeeewwwww!

And a quote from Ghost Busters comes to mind...
"He slimed me!!!" :shock:

[Charles Poole]

Do you dose anything?

Two-Part buffers?
Iodine?

This looks like a bacteria of some sort. May even be an out of control benthic algae (deeper water). Can you get some pics from a bit further away? Whole or half tank shot would be great?

[Charles Poole]

From studying the pictures you posted, it would appear to be entering the tank in the second picture through the return line. Notice that it is only on the pump discharge nozzle, and the rock it directly blowing against.

Do you dose kalkwasser?

[microreefguy]

i've never dosed kalkwasser and i haven't dosed anyhting for five weeks now. i cut back the hours of light to 9 hrs to help with brown and red slime algea and i top off with RO water from LFS. i've tested their water on a few occasions and it's fine. the pics were form this morning, i didn't remove any of it. here are pics from tonight at 12:10 am EST. it has grown some.

[microreefguy]

here's one from the front.....you can see that the whole right side is almost white and completely covered with this stuff.

[H3R0]

what kinda live rock is that may you may have something rotting in the rock you cant see... i have see similar in fresh water tanks with rotting wood...

[microreefguy]

i have fiji live rock. there isn't any of this stuff growing directly on the rocks, only glass, pump, and water surface. todays readings are

Calcium-500
SG-1.025
Alk-9.8 (dropped a whole lot)
Ph-7.3
Ammonia-1.5 (up .5 from before)
Nitrite-way over 40
Nitrate- way over 140

crabs are still alive and remaining corals still hanging in there.

[Charles Poole]

Although the readings are starting to look better, I would have to say that this is most likely a bacterial bloom of some kind.

How is your skimmer reacting to all this slimey stuff?

With your current alkalinity readings, and pH, I see an airation problem existing. Even with the high readings for ammonia Nitrite and Nitrate, at that Alk, you should be higher than 7.3. (Assuming tested with test kit, not digital probe).

I would add an additional powerhead in the tank near the bottom, and aim its out put towards the waters surface. If you don't run a skimmer, consider it. Sorry for seeming a bit stumped, but :wink:

[microreefguy]

i came home to find that my filter AND my pump have both stopped. :shock: i pulled them both out, this is what i found. my tank is completely covered in this stuff again. my yellow star polyp looks very sickly. even my mushrooms don't look that good anymore. :( my pump cycles water 17 times an hour.

[Coral Forum Admin]

OMG ok this is serious, what the heck! :eek2:

[jman785]

Could be some type of animal...such as a nudibranch or something excreting that...they do that in defense...its a possibility.

[microreefguy]

i don't have nudibranches. can they completely cover a small tank in two days?

[Charles Poole]

Have you recently sprayed any chemicals (hair spray, cleaning chemical, dusting sprays, etc). In your house in the last week or 2?

Anything in the air at all at anytime that isn't normally there?

[microreefguy]

no, nothing sprayed near the tank, and i always wash my hands before doing anything with the tank. i rinse them real well to make sure all the soap is off and dry with paper towels.

[Charles Poole]

I am quite stumped at the moment. I can only suggest some big water changes, and keep the pumps anf filters as clean as possible. :?

[microreefguy]

i emptied my tank completely. i just did a 100% water change and replaced my live sand as well. cleaned all the glas, pump, and filter. readings are now

Ca-350
Alk-7.0
SG-1.025
Ph-7.8
Ammonia-1.5
Nitrite-1.0
Nitrate-10
Phosphate-undetectable

i lost all of the yellow polyps. rest looking worse and one crab died. other two crabs acting funny. they keep crawling out of there shell and walking around and then jump back in. i think they are done for.

i'm starting all over again. i just hope that i was able to get all the crap out of the hard to reach places in my filter and tank.

[Zack]

You will go though another cycle, may loose everything. Iwould bring it to a friend or a LFS see if they will hold it for you.

[Charles Poole]

That is excellent advice Zack.

What brand of test kits do you use?
What sea salt mix do you use?

After a 100% water change, your calcium should be higher. This low reading may be due to the error margin inherent in all test kits, but much greater than others.

Hagen Ca test kit ----- +/- 20 ppm
Sailfert Ca test kit ----- +/- 5 ppm

Along with the accuracy of the kits, comes the attention to following instructions to the letter. Never add 10 drops at a time, if it is recommended to be done 1 drop at a time, and replacing test tube cap and mixing, then this is how it has to be done. Otherwise the results will be faulty.

[microreefguy]

i'm using aqarium pharmaceuticals test kit and red sea test kit for calcium. calcium has dropped to 300. i added some calium by natureef. the sea salt i use is bio salt, i'm surprised to find that it didn't give me a reding of over 400 for calcium.

ammonia is down to 1.0, pH also fell to 7.5. i added sea alk by natureef. nitrates went up to 30. nitrites stayed the same at 1.0. i ran every test twice today, just to make sure, and i got the same results both times. i do follow the instructions, replacing cap and shaking it after every drop and everything. i won't cut corners when it comes to testing my water. they won't take my inhabitants. my last remaining living creature is a white legged hermit crab. he's not doing well. my corals are still hanging in there.

[Zack]

Man i wish you the best but you will proably have to start over with little left, did you contact a store about holding onto youre livestock. you seem to be buying a lot of equ. maybe the store you buy from will hold it?!? :hmm2:

[paulsreef]

micro, I wouldn't worry about adding anything right now. Just stick to the water changes and be patient. Things will eventually even themselves out and then you can start building again.

[Charles Poole]

I am at a loss here myself. I will definitely agree with Paul though, just do water changes, and things will improve in due time.

[Charles Poole]

Well, after going back and rereading this entire thread, I noticed you dosed the following not to long ago.
iodine, liquid gold plus, calcium, natu vite, and lipo

In this small of a tank, the likely hood of any of these additives being needed is somewhere around 0.

I have fave an algae that when Iodine is raised slightly over NSW levels, it takes off and kills every last bit of coralline in my tank. This algae is clear and peach fuzz looking, but not nearly as long and stringy as your problem.

The only other advice i can offer at this time, is not to dose anything without establishing a clear need to do so by testing. Otherwise you are playing Russian Roulette with your tank...

[microreefguy]

yes, i found out that the first LFS i was going to was selling me a lot of stuff i did not need. i was following their advice. another LFS told me all those additives will not be necessary because i do weekly water changes on a regular basis. in a such a small tank, the new salt water will contain everything i need. they got me good.

[microreefguy]

i would like to thank Zack, crlkeep, and paulsreef for all of your advice and suggestions. i truly appreciate it. my LFS will not hold any of my livestock for me. i am going to do weekly water changes and water topoffs until everything balances out. i think i am still going to try to bring my pH up though, but that's it. i know i'm going to lose a lot of my inhabitants, i'm prepared for it. here's a pic of what my tank looks like now. in six months i'll post another pic.

[Charles Poole]

I wish you the best of luck, and please keep us updated...

[BoldAsBrass]

Why don't you call a mobile salt water carrier, and have your water replaced by the incoming tide ocean water. Check online for people who do that or call a store for a reco. Good Luck, karen

[BoldAsBrass]

Try calling a person who delivers fresh salt water from the incoming tide. Do an online search or try to call a reputable store and get a reco from them. Good Luck