EcoAqualizer!!!

[jman785]

Anyone had any experience with this item? I have one that I received, because I know the man that invented it...I'm going to install it on my 150 and check it out...any opinions on it? Please no severe negative comments, although negative's are welcomed as well as postive ;)

[mjc]

No opinions, but have always wanted to evaluate one :wink:

I came across a FAMA article on it some time ago, nothing negative if I recall.

[jman785]

Yeah I read that article...although Randy Holmes-Farley, has negative opinions on it...I don't think anyone should knock something, until they try it for themselves...so I'm off to give it a try here in the next few months. The man who invented it, his brother came in my hobby shop some time ago, and is actually part of the manufacturing team...and he bought some pieces to make manufacturing easier. So basically, they are made...pretty much right down the road from me (really about 45 minutes). Anyhow...thanks for the input, more are welcomed!

[paulsreef]

OH NO!!!! Not this thing again. I've had way too many conversations with people about this thing. Not too long ago I started corresponding with Habib (the owner of Salifert) about it. He had asked me to repost a thread on my site that came from Carl Denzer (the owner of Eco Aqualizer), which I did. I'll find it and repost it here for your reading pleasure. It was quite the load of BS. To make a long story short though, Habib did some testing and determined that basically the unit produces what are known as ROS's (reactive oxygen species). This class of substances include things like Super Oxide, hydrogen peroxide, and many others. The net of it is that this thing operates (in principle) very similarly to a UV Sterilizer. I've spoken to a number of people about it and have had a number of conversations about it and, if no one objects, I'll post links to those threads. Another interesting note, Sam Gamble used to work for Marc Weiss. Marc is part of our local aquarium society and is a good friend of mine (and no, I don't blindly support his products). His opinion on the device is basically that its not a complete solution, there is more that could be done with it. I think the biggest problem with this device is the marketing spin that they put on it and the fact that they've been made some very outrageous claims that they've been very defensive about. This is one of those devices that has caused a TON of debate in the aquarium world, but to this date no one has done a controlled study that's met everyone's requirements. Here's a link to the last debate I participated in:
http://www.3reef.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=Product;action=display;num=105080033 3;start=0

I'm reefguy by the way on that board. As you can see, people get really defensive about this thing. Carl Denzer was nice enough to send me one for free. I've used the thing, but honestly I've seen no difference in my tank because of it.

[Macbeth417]

I usually don't trust miracle gadgets. What is the primary purpose of the device and how does it go about achieving that purpose?

Thier site claims the following:
"Enhances both filtration and skimming
Prevents and helps cure diseases
Increases ORP and Stabilizes pH
Improves Oxygen bio-availability
Provides a stress-free and tranquil state
Proliferates nutrients and trace elements."

Huh, okay... I can stir my tank with my a wooden spoon and argue that the gas exchange will do most of those things. I am not knocking this device. I just love gadgets and would like a better idea of what this device is specificly designed to do.



Fill me in fellas!
-Erik :razz:

[Macbeth417]

So it's an ionizer? Hrmm. How does it change the charge of bonded particles? This thing needs to tell me how it works. I watched the pretty little video they offered, but that didn't help me out much.


"ECO-Aqualizer combines a unique proprietary blend of magnetics and photons to serve as that same energy source which constantly restores water quality and revitalizes the aquarium."

Oh, so it's a like a star trek phazer? :lol:

It even claims to eliminate need for water changes.
So is it a denitrifier in it's spare time?

I'm going to read up on this thing.
If anyone else finds any information pass it my way.

-Erik

[Macbeth417]

jman785: I honestly hope that you as a MOD don't believe in this stuff and wont inadvertently mislead others.

The more I read the more this thing sounds like snake oil.

-Erik

[Macbeth417]

paulsreef:
There were some very good links on the thread you posted as well as in RC thread on this. Read up and don't waste your money folks.

I will shutup on this now.

-Erik :oops:

[Zack]

I will shutup on this now.

-Erik

LOL

[jman785]

Good advice ;) I'm still testing my free version out though... :) Don't knock it until you try it. Like I said.

[blackangler]

"ive got a gaget that will make water changes no longer necessary, and it will also shoot sps colonies out of the top of it, and money out of the bottom. you see the postive charge from the broken light bulb acts with the saltwater and cleans your water, as well as instantly materalizing sps colonies and $" (sound familiar)

[paulsreef]

Well, I think you guys can tell where I stand on this. But just for arguments sake, check out these sites...

Water Related Pseudoscience & Quackery
http://www.chem1.com/CQ/

Magnetic Water and Fuel Treatment: Myth, Magic, or Mainstream Science?
http://www.csicop.org/si/9801/powell.html

Fallacies in Scientific Reasoning
http://members.provalue.net/maier/signs.htm

Its amazing to me... the company gives virtually anyone who asks a free unit. Like I said, I haven't noticed any great difference because of the unit but then again, I (like everyone else) have't done a true experiment on it utilizing approved Scientific Method.

... the debate will rage on.

Paul

[paulsreef]

I tell you what's really worked for me... I have a wire pyramid on top of my tank with a perfect prism suspended in the center. My water quality is awesome and my corals grow like mad. The only problem is that whenever certain planets line up my tank glows a funny color. Other than that I'm very pleased with my miracle product. :badgrin:

Ok, so I'm only kidding, but you get the point.

http://www.extremereef.com/images/snakeoil.gif

[jman785]

Well...why would a product, claiming to be an Aquarium Ionization filter...that "supposedly" doens't work, and is BS...have a 180 Day, Money back guarantee? I'll have to do some testing...I'll do my own tests...on a 55 gallon, and we'll see what's going on here...like I said, I'm not going to knock Carl's product, considering I got mine for free, until I try it.

- Jared

[Charles Poole]

I personally don't care if it works or not. Just another attempt to invent the perfect mechanical filter. They all work in some ways, and fail in others. I do agree with Randy that it would seem a bad thing to run this unit and potentially kill of any unneccessary micro organisms. Let alone in large numbers.

I thought this company was in Holland?

[paulsreef]

Tell you what... I'll sell you a PVC tube with a 180 day money back guarantee. I'll make a bunch of miracles claims that are difficult (if not impossible) to prove and spew a load of pseudo-science jargon that doesn't mean squat. Hook it up to your tank and see what happens. If you don't like it I'll give you your money back. The chances of the average consumer ever asking for their money back is incredibly small (that's been proven numerous times... business 101 stuff). Add to that the fact that he gets to keep your money for 180 days and earn interest on it, etc... its only a good deal for one person (and that's not you).

[Charles Poole]

Well said Paul...... :)

[jman785]

The company runs out of Houston, Texas. They are manufactured, near me, in a small town, called Navarre...that or Crestview, I forgot.

I do agree with Randy that it would seem a bad thing to run this unit and potentially kill of any unneccessary micro organisms. Let alone in large numbers.


I don't recall Randy, discussing this point...but that's not what they do are "supposed" to do in the first place, they are supposed, to break up molecules, of waste particles, and bacteria, that are tightly bonded, so your skimmer can pick them up more efficiently...and to keep the clarity down. It ionizes the water, from what I understand...just like your wife, or daughter, or girlfriend, dries there hair with an ionizer on a hair dryer...

[paulsreef]

Jared,

I understand where you're coming from, but my problem with the product stems from the fact that there isn't any truly scientific, documented proof of their claims. Sure, they give some links to some nice articles... but nothing that has been officially validated by the scientific community. I could go on and on, but I'll simply ask you to read this fine article: A Guide to a DIY BS-ometer
(http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-06/rs/index.htm). It puts it all in perspective in a much more eloquent fashion that I could ever hope to achieve. Bottom line: "The most important thing to remember is to develop a healthy dose of skepticism! Do not accept information without documentation. And make sure the documentation is from a reliable source. You DO need to verify sources, and you should not automatically trust unsubstantiated references. ... So, how do you decide what to add to your aquarium to promote the health of the organisms? Well, there are really three choices. You can believe advertising hype, or you can believe undocumented aquarium references, or you can believe information from research documented in the scientific literature."

If the next edition of the "JOURNAL OF EXPERIMENTAL MARINE BIOLOGY AND ECOLOGY" has a study of the Eco-Aqualizer with positive results that have been verified and substantiated by reputable experts and the scientific community, I'll recommend that everyone should run out and buy one. Until then, to me it's just a tube. :|

[jman785]

Paul,

I completely understand your view...although how about I hook mine up to my prop tank...and feed you weekly results? :) If that will help, then I will, if its a flop, its a flop...if its not...its not...I dont' care, I didn't make it :) Stay tuned for that...after Christmas.

- Jared

[Charles Poole]

I understand from Habib's (Sailfert) conversation with Eco-Aqualizer, that there is the potential for this "ionizing filter" to produce Hydrogen peroxide and other species, which will kill micro organisms much like the effects of a UV sterilizer. With a UV sterilizer, this is the intended effect. With a healthy, mature reef environment, this is a very bad thing.

As Paul said, so I shall second it. Until I see some scientificly verified results, published by an exceptional source, I won't use one, and I don't recommend them to anyone...

Nature is the best filter. I don't think we may ever get nature to contain itself in an aquarium, but trying to magically do her job in a piece of tubing is absurd to me....

Maybe these eco-aqualizers are best used in systems where nature has been all but ignored.

[Macbeth417]

I recommend we all re-read my post in which I wrote: "I will shutup on this now. :oops: -Erik"

I think both sides have posted all the necessary information for members to make an informed decision; anything after that is just bickering to no avail.

I look forward to seeing how you approach your research Jared.
Everyone else, I think we know where you stand.
Now give it a rest and get that last minute shopping done. Oh, and pick me up an aquacontroller while your out (a gadgets with a "cool" factor that cannot be debated). :lol:

-Erik

[paulsreef]

Just as additional information about this device, I thought you all might find this interesting:

http://www.inlandreef.com/Eco_Photos.html

:roll:

[Macbeth417]

To sum up my thoughts on this product I have drawn up this highly technical sequenced reactionary graph showing my reactions, in chronological order, to the information I have learnt about this product from others and that which I have researched on my own. The graph is read from left to right and is measured on an augmented base circadian of 27 hours in order to more accurately reflect my body's natural patterns.





The Graph:


:thinkhard: :shock: :lol: :lol: :shock: :lol: :lol: :badgrin:





-Erik : þ

[Zack]

awsome, thanks for the help erik i will be getting one soon :)

HAHAHAHA
:lol:

[paulsreef]

:-D Thanks Erik, I need a good laugh today.

[jman785]

Paul...I was curious, about using radioactive waste..powder...and containing it with lead...to use like a sterilizer...what do you think? I wonder what that white powder is, inside the eco-aqualizer?

[jstrawn]

Hmm, it doesn't need electricity. Obviously they just put some kind of magnet in there. Maybe if I put my magnetic arthritis bracelet around it it will work better.

[Condiman]

I still prefer the old water change but I will not knock anything that I havent tried.

[jstrawn]

I know several people who wear magnetic bracelets. There is probably a grain of truth to them but they are not supported by scientific evidence. I suspect the same is true of this contraption. The claims on the website are fairly strong though and I doubt the device can really live up to them. From what I've read in the website the device works primarily by magnetism. Maybe??? However, it definitely is not a denitrator.

[jstrawn]

After reading through pages of other forums what I gather is that 1) Users of the thing say it definitely makes their water clearer and reduces maintenance.
However,
2) It seems to work by freeing up chlorine and creating hydrogen peroxide and free radicals which will make water clearer but can be bad for fishes and can cause gill damage. I'm pretty sure they're even bad for people. Free radicals cause cancer in people that's why anti-oxidants are good for us.